S02E14 - Ashley and David Syvertsen - Love Them or Hate Them? Partner WODs
April 9, 2021 - This week's episode is with Coaches Ashley Syvertsen and David Syvertsen, owners and coaches at my box, CrossFit Bison, in Midland Park New Jersey. Few things at a CrossFit gym divide athletes more than partner WODs. Half absolutely LOVE partner WODs, the other half DETEST them. This week we explore the hows, whats and whys of partner WODs. Are they really so awesome (or awful) as we think?
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S02E14 - Ashley and David Syvertsen - Love Them or Hate Them? Partner WODsFull transcript (click here for PDF)
Sam Rhee: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Botox and burpees. I'm Dr. Sam Rhee plastic surgeon and CrossFit coach host of this podcast where we talk about plastic surgery, CrossFit, and everything in between. You can find more information at our website, botoxandburpees.com. And make sure to like, and subscribe wherever you listen to our podcast.
So the next topic we're going to talk about I have mixed feelings about are partner workouts and those are workouts in CrossFit, we all know what they are. They're basically instead of you doing your own individual workout, you have a partner and the workout is designed for you to share in some way the workout with your partner.
And then also the score is recorded for the both of you together. Not just as a single person. So let me ask first, if you ask probably half the gym, they would say, I hate partner WODs I'm so scared of them. I don't like them. And why is that?
David Syvertsen: [00:00:56] I think when you do an individual workout, you really everything, you're scaling RX or scaled, or how hard you want to go.
You get to make every decision. So you're in full control and you do have a lot of type a personalities that come here. That's, in my opinion, that's like the most dominant personality in CrossFit. And you get to control everything right in your own workout. When you come to a partner workout, that's out the window, and I still think that's a little over blown.
You still get to have like your own weights if you want. We stress that. I feel like I say it every week and people get sick of hearing it. It is a lot of times an individual workout that you're just simply doing with someone else. I wish more people would view it that way, but I just think that once you lose that control, you put these pressure on yourself that you need to perform at a certain level because of the person you're with.
And there's no hiding and, to bring up a past episode, there's no cheating. If someone's got eyes on you at all times, so you can't show what the reps are you can't just be like, all right, I'm done. I'm just, someone will know. And the intensity is definitely higher.
So if you're not an intense person, you don't like the intensity of CrossFit, that's one of the things you don't like, the partner workouts, especially here on Saturdays, probably aren't great for you as an individual.
Sam Rhee: [00:02:10] Do you like partner workouts or not like partner works out workouts.
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:02:15] I really like them. I don't maybe the, maybe I'm just like the outlier. I like the fact that usually I'm with people that I don't normally see. Most of you guys know I'm not a morning person, so you will never really see me in the morning. But I get to see people that I don't normally see. And I feel like even though there is that added pressure.
It pushes you to see what your capacity is, right? Because you don't want to let that person down. But at the same time I don't think I've ever had a partner workout where I've been like, I need an extra 10 seconds. And the person has yelled at me and said, absolutely not keep going. Like you're in that together.
Whether that means that you're taking that extra 10 seconds, or they're saying like, Hey, don't worry about it. Take your time. I'm going to hop on the pull-up bar and I'll do some more reps. You just get That nice comradery together. I like them.
Sam Rhee: [00:03:11] That might be if you're, if you feel like you're pretty good at stuff, but there are a lot of people who feel worried because I might embarrass myself. It's embarrassing. I'm going to be with someone and I suck at this movement and now it's going to be even more obvious that I don't do this well, and yeah, someone's going to be sitting there watching me as I suck at this thing.
David Syvertsen: [00:03:33] I've had people say many times, like they will never come on a Saturday ever because it's partner and, full disclosure here, like the way our gym is set up, especially now with the zones and the restrictions that are easing, but we still have restrictions, but also just the amount of people that want to work on a Saturday.
And we're not going to have, we're not going to be here till two o'clock on a Saturday. It's the most efficient way to run classes. So that's why we started it. And then it turned into something that people loved. But I understand why people won't want to come because you can't hide, like you're you get exposed, like you just said, but also a lot of people are insecure that they're going to have a negative impact on someone else's workout.
That's the most common reason why people have said that Oh, I don't want that pressure.
Sam Rhee: [00:04:17] You mean holding someone back?
David Syvertsen: [00:04:18] Yeah. I don't want the pressure of holding somebody else back. I don't want, like I'm too slow. I'm too slow. And I'll tell you what I like try to have, coaches do this sometimes I'll do this.
Sometimes Ashley offers to do this all the time. They'll partner with anybody. I really do think that if you come in with the right attitude on Saturday, it should not matter who you're partnered with. There is some there are some workouts where yes, you might be putting more out, less out all that good stuff.
But I've seen people do this where they want to be paired with someone really fast. And then that, person's the one that ends up slowing down the pair. And vice versa, where I just think that if you come in with the right mindset and everyone here is mature and you just go at it with each other, You're going to get a good workout and a big part of what we do on Saturdays.
I think Saturday is build community here. A lot kind of builds relationships, and I'm sure we can get into that a little bit more, but the fear of having a negative impact on someone else's workout. I want everyone to know it's just not true. It will not happen. I promise. And I'll tell you what the coaches that coach Saturday, like we put 10 times more thought into partners than anyone will ever believe.
Sam Rhee: [00:05:28] So that's, that leads me to two parts question. The first is I do know that coaches stress out quite a bit about how to partner for sure. People up. Yep. So what is your thinking when, as a coach, all I have X and it's easier now because yeah. Now
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:05:44] it's so much easier for you or they're like, Holy crap. They just keep coming in and I already put pairs together now. Okay. People pull up now it's better.
David Syvertsen: [00:05:54] The way we used to do it was like we would hold a whiteboard in our hands. And every time someone walked in for the class, you'd write their name down. And then back before COVID, we'd have 30 people sometimes show up.
So you have 30 names on this whiteboard. They're all waiting for you to start getting the class going. You're putting these pairs together. Ash can build off this too, my way of putting pairs together was not RX scale. All right. Unless it was an equipment issue, where I wanted them to share the equipment, it was not good or bad, not guy or girl, it was, do they have the same approach in terms of do they hustle?
Do these guys like to get after it? They're not one's RX one scale, but they both get after it. Where, Hey, these two people, they, they like to chill out a little bit, pace things out, just have fun, get the word, this person's banged up. That person's banged up. This person's new. That person's new.
Sam Rhee: [00:06:42] That, you would though, I know you because you would sometimes bear me up. Cause you thought I was like sandbagging too, with someone to try to get me to go a little bit harder.
David Syvertsen: [00:06:50] And that is there are people in the gym that I know do, will appreciate going hard after the workout during they're not so happy about it.
I remember Tirri he got mad at Delatour when she paired, he paired her with me. And I remember telling him I like working out Tirri because she'll get after it. We have different goals and different training backgrounds, but like we both got after it. And at the end it was fun.
It was like, I know that there are days where you might not want it. The paired with some, someone that's like faster, more aggressive, but after were you really that upset? Like you got a good workout and true. The top 200 in the world last year. So you can thank me for that. I,
Sam Rhee: [00:07:27] I don't think anyone wants to be your intensity is really scary, trying to keep up with that is horrible.
David Syvertsen: [00:07:34] And I'll tell you what, I've never, I remember I paired with a Frank L on one of his first Saturdays ever. I remember I got a great workout that day and it didn't matter that it was his second CrossFit class ever. It didn't matter that I was going hard. He was still asking me what a thruster was as he was doing a back squat and it's, it really, he's just Hey, let's both go do our own workout.
We just like really what your partner is dictating is when you're resting and going at the end of the day.
Sam Rhee: [00:08:01] What if I was someone who was scared about partner workouts, and I said, Dave, I want to see I'm thinking about a Saturday or Ash, what can you do for that person to make them feel. Like it will be okay for them.
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:08:15] I tell Dave all the time that if someone ever says that to tell me and I'll partner with them, because yes, I do feel like there are some people that are like, I want to get after it every single Saturday. And I want to go balls to the wall and just try to kill myself, David.
But I think for the first people that come in that are like, I want to try it, but I don't know. We tell everybody all the time, we can scale the movements down. I'll put you with someone who wants to just get a good workout and what, however that is. And I think on the coaches aspect of it, we need to be mindful of those people and make sure that we put them with somebody who doesn't, who isn't going to be screaming at them, or isn't going to care, whether they're a little bit slower on this movement, because they're still learning it. Because you want that first experience to be a good one. You don't want them to come in and for them to be with someone like, I'm using you as an example, but non coach, Dave and Hamby, like I want to get after it today and he's sweating all over the place and he's yelling and he's got 900 weights on the bar and you have some new little girl who was like, Oh my God, I'm using the training bar.
And now she's terrified. You want to make sure that you partner them with somebody. Who's going to be like, Hey, let me take you under my wing, and let's have a great workout. Let's work together on this. Maybe a veteran who's been there before, who can show them what's up and say Hey, let's put this weight on the bar.
Let's see how it goes. And let's just work out. Like plain and simple. Let's just work out. That's what we're here for.
Sam Rhee: [00:09:43] So we're definitely not going to hurt anyone in any negative way. It will probably be very positive for them. And if they're scared, they should just reach out to the coach beforehand.
David Syvertsen: [00:09:50] Right. And they'll help you. I have no problem with that too. If someone like I get, it happens almost every week that you'll say Hey I'm really just not looking to get after tomorrow. Can you put me to someone that's not, quote, fire breather, and always accommodate that pretty much always accommodate that.
But I also think it's like the coach needs to know the membership. It's not always I'm not always going to put a coach with a new person. But I know the members that come on Saturday, I know their personality. Let's take physical capability, capacity out of it. They're mature enough, kind enough.
Respectful enough to be like, Hey, if I'm with this person that's new. Like I'll still get my workout on, but I'll definitely help this person out and accommodate the fact that it's the first time it's a Saturday and this place is intimidating on a Saturday. There's no doubt about it.
Sam Rhee: [00:10:30] Yeah. How do you fight this sort of cliquiness sometimes where people like, Oh, I'm only wanting to partner with this person and work together.
David Syvertsen: [00:10:37] There's certain situations where, I guess it is arbitrary, but Hey, like that's, we're allowed to make decisions here, right? There are some people, some situations, some pairs that.
We'll let them partner up the same thing every time, like Susan and Sasha, right?
Sam Rhee: [00:10:50] Sasha is she does that because she's afraid of being partnered with anyone else Sasha, and I will be partnering. You can use Sasha that in that way, as well as Susan or like toner to protect themselves.
David Syvertsen: [00:11:05] But newer people, that I'm really sympathetic towards them because I know the further we get into this at bison, the more intimidating this place is as a new person. All right. So if you're coming on a Saturday and I love the social aspect on Saturdays, but sometimes I'm like, man, the same peoples talk to the same people every single week.
Like, why don't you talk to the three people that are in the corner that no one's talking to you right now, but Hey, that's, I, you can't control that, but but you can control who's partners. So I do try to move people around. And if someone's going to ask me to partner with a certain someone, every Saturday, it does bother me.
I'll put that out there now. And it's not because I'm a control freak. It's because the value that you get on a Saturday is it goes a little deeper than I think most people understand. If you are with someone new every Saturday, it's a different experience for you where if you're with the same person that you were with the past three weeks are the same person that you live with, right?
I you just, I feel like you get less out of it. I really do. You worked hard, you went hard, you got a good score. Who cares, right? Like that. I think there's. Relationships that can be made here through Saturday partner workout. And I'm not making that up. Like I've seen people partner here on a Saturday.
That's how they met each other and now they're in each other's weddings. All right. So it's I think that you're really closing a door on opportunity for yourself. If you're just always I need this partner because you know why you're doing it, but you want to be in your comfort zone. And we say this about cross all the time.
If you're constantly striving, try trying to open the door to your comfort zone. You will grow as an athlete much lesser than if you just like, let us to take care of that. Part of it, show up partner who, with weak, who we tell you to partner with, get your workout on. I promise it's going to make you better
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:12:40] To piggyback off of that. I think too, partnering with different people allows you as an athlete to grow differently because the way that you Sam do something, the way that David does something, the way that. Susan does something the way that I do something, the way that Liz does something could be completely different. So if you're coming in, especially as a new person and seeing all of these different athletes, like you may say Hey.
They do this differently than the person I'm in partnering with all the past, like four weeks. So maybe I'm going to learn something like, Hey, maybe this movement I can do more efficiently because they're doing it like that. And you can learn a little bit. If you just sit there and you work out with the same person every week, you guys start to almost mimic each other and it's okay.
I know that they're going to scale to this and I'm going to scale to that, or I'm going to change this, or this is how we do this. And you get, like Dave said, you get in that comfort zone. How are you going to become a better athlete if you're always in that comfort zone might as well step out a little bit.
Sam Rhee: [00:13:37] That, that's totally true. I think also when I was thinking about this, one of the reasons I am worried, or I get scared about partner workouts is because if I get paired with someone, my ego will be where I have to do at least as good as that person or use the same weights. And I realized, especially after talking to Terry for a while, we've been talking with Terry.
I don't have to. If that person is doing one 55 and I feel like I, you know what, I will do this workout, but I'll do it at one 35. Yeah, I think I'm the next time I will be doing that and not kill myself or run, beat the crap out of myself, trying to do it
David Syvertsen: [00:14:13] When you're in that situation. And you make that decision and you end up being like, wow, I got a really good workout. Even though I go 155, my ego didn't take a hit and. I feel good tomorrow. I feel good. The next day you can make, you can find these situations on a Saturday that like translate to the rest of your individual weeks programming.
Like it really does open up a door to a different kind of CrossFit. When you're with butter. I compare this to a team competing versus individual competing all the time. Like when I team compete with my Fratly guys, I do feel more pressure. Absolutely. I actually feel like I go harder too, because I'm trying to, I put pressure on myself to not disappoint them.
And then, because I have done poorly with them and it had a negative impact on them as a team, that kind of pressure is not always fun to deal with, but it did make me grow as an athlete. And I actually feel like it made me so like I prefer individual competing, big picture. But when I'm with the team, it forces me out of my comfort zone and it makes me do things I don't want to do.
And I think that's the biggest advantage to working out on a Saturday. And it's, it's once a week, it maybe for you it's once every two, three weeks.
Sam Rhee: [00:15:22] As a programmer, there are different types of partner WODs. Yeah. The ones I absolutely hate are the frigging timekeeper ones where there's no rest where you're rowing and the other dude is doing something and then you switch and you're like, where's the 50%.
David Syvertsen: [00:15:40] Putting in at this, we did one of those. I think it was two weeks ago. It was like someone was rowing while the other person was chipping away at an AMRAP. Absolutely brutal. Yeah. Those are brutal because it really turns into, most Saturday workouts are between 28 and 35 minutes. So in that workout, you're working for that long.
And you would never do that on a weekday. We never used the classes are hour 15 instead of an hour. On the set on Saturday. So yeah, there's nothing else I could say about that. Those are definitely the hardest one.
Sam Rhee: [00:16:05] How do you decide which ones to program then?
David Syvertsen: [00:16:08] It's based on what we've done, the previous two days, we have one, I actually think the most intense ones are the, I go, Hugo's where you have to do an entire round of work. Those are the ones I just found out. People are crawling out of here once it's over, because you're not doing a movement than chilling, you're doing a bunch of movements.
You're working for 45 seconds to a minute 30 seconds, whatever. And then that's when, if you get partnered with someone that's really fast, they did it in 40 seconds. So that it takes you a minute. So
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:16:36] I remember having this conversation with Radcliffe's Nicole and Ryan, they were partnered up on Saturday.
And if anybody knows Ryan, Ryan's a great athlete. If anyone knows Nicole, she has a motor and she can just go, she's like a little Energizer bunny. She just is a constant go. Yeah. They were paired up one day.
Sam Rhee: [00:16:54] I don't know. Who'd be worse to partner up with, honestly.
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:16:56] Yeah. Oh no. But they were paired up and Nicole was dying after the workout. Absolutely dying. And Ryan was like laughing. He thought it was funny. And I was like, Nicole, are you okay? And she's just that was horrible because his rounds are so fast that I'm not getting a break. She's so I purposely rested during my rounds because that's the only time I was going to break.
She was like, he was going so fast. That by the time I put chalk on my hands got a sip of water. I had to go again. She's this was not fun.
Sam Rhee: [00:17:27] That's where, if you are someone new, you need to consider it coach and athlete, because you're going to have to realize, all so if it's going to take him X amount of time to do this, maybe we load it differently.
Yeah. And B because yeah. And trust me, I don't want someone to listen to this and be like, Oh my God, if I get paired up with someone, they're going to crush me on that or something like that, like
David Syvertsen: [00:17:50] We've all been in the shoes. We've all been in those shoes. It's one freaking workout, and.
This is I'll tell you right now, this stuff is going to humble you and you'll get humbled on a Saturday. I got, I get humbled on Saturdays. I get humbled. I'm like, so have you, it's going to happen. That's part of it. Like we always say, enjoy the process as part of the freaking process, just accept it. And it's going to help you like big picture.
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:18:09] And I think like one of the best things about our community that we have here is, no one gives a shit. Sorry. If I can say that no one cares. No one cares. If you did 20 wall balls or 15 or 17, no one cares. Everyone just wants you to come in and work hard at the end of the day.
That's all that anybody cares about. No, one's going to be sitting there and be like, Oh, did you see Sam today? He was partnered with this person. And he, only did, three rounds. No one is gonna think that way. Okay.
Sam Rhee: [00:18:40] But don't tell me that you haven't been partnered up and you like, okay.
Who did that, okay. Radcliffe and did this. So now,
David Syvertsen: [00:18:46] now Radcliffe and I lapped Owen and Marcos last week, like three, three or four times. No, but like that, but it's playful, right? I say that from a joking mindset where it is fun to do that on a Saturday.
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:18:59] Fun that there are some people that come in here that have that banter back and forth and watching them.
We always joke around that Joe Ross gets the shit end of the stick every week because Dave or whoever Mike is coaching pairs him up with somebody and he is just dying every workout and it's great. And he loves it afterwards. He is laughing about it. He thinks it's great. And that comradery in that banter is really fun to have in a class
David Syvertsen: [00:19:26] yourself too serious here.
I think that's one thing on Saturday. I want people to know I, I'm trying to find different ways to say it just don't take yourself too serious, like on a Saturday, because whether you think you're good or you're bad, you're probably wrong, right? Like you're probably right in the middle.
Okay. So it's just let yourself come in here, get a good workout and possibly meet someone new, do something you haven't done before. And then beyond with your life, like I just think that the more you come on Saturdays, I think the more you grasp that the person that comes once every five, six weeks has a hard, harder time grasping that.
But it's, I really think that's just one thing I could wish it's pounded into people's head for Saturdays is, don't take yourself too seriously. Don't put too much pressure on yourself. You're going to get a workout. You're going to go home just like you would, if there was an individual workout.
Sam Rhee: [00:20:11] So true. I think the newer you are the more benefit you're going to get from coming from a Saturday, for sure. There's no doubt. Yep. And I think for the ones who have done it for a long time, it's nice to remind, all of us, how to be a good partner versus a bad partner. And we don't really have, I can't.
I was trying to think of someone who would look at someone who they got paired up with and be like, and roll their eyes or side that they didn't think that person was good. I honestly can't think of anyone who would be like that
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:20:43] Again I think that's, one of the good things about our community is that.
Again, no one is going to have bad thoughts because again, at the end of the day, if you are Best in the world and you're coming here and you're with someone who's brand new and is, scaling things like you're still going to do the same amount of work. You're still going to do the same workout together.
It doesn't matter. I do
Sam Rhee: [00:21:06] know people are just really hard on themselves. And I read a blog post from someone she's a 65 year old woman who was doing CrossFit and she basically said that day's workout, which was actually a crazy idea. They did the gym did 16.1 through 16.5.
As a partner. So they did, they went through all of them in one shot.
Ashley Syvertsen: [00:21:29] Don't give David these ideas.
David Syvertsen: [00:21:31] I've had that idea before,I have.
Sam Rhee: [00:21:33] And so 16.5 was 32 heavy deadlifts, 32 wall balls, 32 KALRO 16 Hanson pushups hand release, pushup was the sub. And she basically said she got she's 65. She, she keeps being down on herself.
She was paired up with some 20, it was random picks. So they didn't even get to pick the, it was complete random partner pick. Yeah. She had a 24 year old, young, very fit CrossFitter named Eli. They she said they did half the deadlifts, each Eli did 16 wall balls. She did five wall balls.
Couldn't move. Her heart rate was 172 on her little thing. She did the other 11 wall balls, and then he did the entire row. Because he would get a calorie, every pull. And she said she needed like three pull just to get one calorie. She barely managed 12 pushups. And then she basically died at the end.
And she wrote about this because she said instead of being happy that I did five. back to back wods with a partner that she was brave. She gave her best shot. What she kept focusing on was that she only got five wall balls done in that workout. And that's where we are our biggest enemy is that we focus on all this negativity.
And I think a lot of the fear from partner workouts is because of this negativity that we bring on ourselves. And if we can let that go. And I know that when I am afraid of partner wods, it's not from a positive place, it's only from a negative place. So if any of us are scared about it, think about why are we scared about, is that a positive place that we're coming from or a negative place?
It's a good way of putting it because partner WODs are genuinely positive. I do feel like you're absolutely right. The way they're set up what we do. Yeah. It's a good thing.
David Syvertsen: [00:23:10] I think that's a great way of putting it you're for sure.
Sam Rhee: [00:23:12] You can get every episode of Botox and burpees, wherever you listen to podcasts, or go to botoxandburpees.com. thanks for listening 