S04E78 From Harvard to Surgical Leader: Dr. Tara Huston's Journey to the Top of Plastic Surgery

Join the ranks of surgical excellence as we sit down with the inspiring Dr. Tara Huston, whose stellar career trajectory from Harvard undergraduate to president of the Northeastern Society of Plastic Surgeons is nothing short of remarkable. Unveiling the fabric of her success, we pay homage to the power of mentorship, resilience, and the relentless pursuit of excellence, all while navigating the high-stakes realm of New York’s surgical theater. Dr. Houston's narrative not only showcases her ascent to a full professorship at Stony Brook Medical School but also captures her authentic dedication to the craft, offering a rare glimpse into the meticulous preparation and humility that have defined her journey.

Peer into the heart of the operating room as Dr. Houston and I trade stories that underscore the critical role of presence—both in meticulous surgical procedures and in the delicate moments of patient care. We dissect the evolution of surgical techniques and the crucial need for continuous learning, all while balancing the demands of a life dedicated to medicine. From the silent rhythm of the OR to the roar of collegiate sports, discover how our outside passions fortify the drive within, and learn why a quiet operating room can be the loudest place for growth and reflection.

We culminate our session with a frank discussion on the evolving landscape of medical leadership, particularly for women in the surgical field. Dr. Huston's experiences reveal the unique hurdles and triumphs for female surgeons, and we celebrate her pioneering role as a beacon for future generations. As we contemplate the future of surgery and the legacies we aspire to leave, tune in for an episode that not only honors the milestones achieved but also forges ahead with unwavering optimism towards a more inclusive and innovative surgical community.

#SurgicalSuccess #WomenInSurgery #LeadershipInMedicine #PlasticSurgery #MentorshipMatters #BotoxAndBurpees #BotoxandBurpeesPodcast #LifeInMedicine #MedicalInspirations #FutureSurgeons #ResidencyLife #DoctorsOfInstagram #SurgeryEducation #podcast #plasticsurgery

00:00:05 Success in Surgery

00:12:11 Mentorship and Surgical Skill Development

00:18:46 Continuous Self-Improvement in Surgery

00:27:21 Progressing Women in Leadership Positions

00:32:49 Leadership Skills in Surgery and Life

00:42:19 Life in Medicine

00:49:15 Women in Surgery

Click on your podcast site to listen and subscribe!

S04E78 From Harvard to Surgical Leader: Dr. Tara Huston's Journey to the Top of Plastic Surgery

TRANSCRIPT

Have you ever seen an old war movie where some wet behind the ears lieutenant joins a battle hardened platoon? Supposedly the young junior officer just out of command school is in charge of the group, but the person who's really in charge and holds all the respect is the experienced sergeant who's already been through many battles.

That's how I felt when I first met Dr. Tara Houston at Weill Cornell Medical Center at New York Presbyterian back in 2007. I was barely out of fellowship by two years when I took the position of craniofacial surgery director at the hospital. And boy, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. All of these big New York hospitals have prestigious names and reputations, but giant egos, and politics to match.

Looking back, you could say I brought a knife to a gunfight, or I forgot to bring my big boy pants when I got there. But my own experience is a whole other story. Dr. Tara Houston is a Harvard college grad, but not one of those that ride the name, like a get out of jail free card.

She proceeded to crush medical school, graduating AOA, which is the medical school honor society, which I wasn't even close to achieving. And then she did a full general surgery residency at Cornell before she was a plastic surgery resident when I first met her. And every attending I met told me she was a superstar and they weren't lying.

She was one of the hardest working people in the hospital. She was also coachable. She absorbed all the surgical knowledge that she was taught. She was talented and yet she was egoless. She never acted like she was better than anyone else in the room, even when it was pretty clear that she was, and at an institution where politicking and deviousness abounded, she played everyone and everything straight.

She is sincere and genuine. And she's too nice to say it, but I know back then she was gently shaking her head as she watched one of her supposed bosses flounder in the system. And this lieutenant, for one, was very glad to have had her as a sergeant on his service. Her climb to success has not surprised me in the least.

She's already surpassed many of my own mentors at this point. She's a full professor at her home institution of Stony Brook Medical School. She's president of their medical board, chair of admissions of the School of Medicine, and she recently served as the president of the Northeastern Society of Plastic Surgeons.

And trust me, listen to the podcast. She is paying it forward to her mentees in spades as well. And even for something as minor as this podcast, her preparation was second to none. When she agreed to be interviewed, she went back and listened to old episodes for prep while she was working out on her Peloton and she sent me comments.

Tara was very surprised that there wasn't even a prep session before the podcast recording. She was on time, and she had no technical issues with recording, which is extremely rare when you ask a bunch of surgeons to meet with you on computer. And as you can see, if you're watching this on video, her media presence on an early Saturday morning, looks like she's ready to deliver a keynote address to the nation. She's a consummate pro, listening to her speak about her life, she says she absolutely loves what she does.

And I believe her. I also believe she is doing it better than just about anyone else out there. She's inspired me. And I know you will find something in our conversation that can inspire you as well. Thank you again for watching and listening.

[00:03:31] Dr. Sam Rhee: Hello and welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees, the surgical, the surgical series. And I have with me, uh, one of the most favorite people that I, uh, had trained with when I was a very young attending a long time ago at Cornell. This is Dr. Tara Huston. Uh, welcome Tara. Let me, uh, intro you a little bit and, uh, let me go through your extensive list of accomplishments.

It's amazing, uh. What you've accomplished so far. So, uh, Tara, you, uh, graduated from Harvard, uh, in biochemical sciences. Is that biochemistry?

[00:04:07] Dr. Tara Huston: Yes,

[00:04:10] Dr. Sam Rhee: you went to, uh, Stony Brook University at the Renaissance School of Medicine, where you got your, uh, medical degree and your AOA, uh, Alpha Omega Alpha.

For those who don't know, that's the, uh, Honor Society. Very. Uh, a real mark of distinction, very challenging to obtain, uh, not something I, I was not AOA, but, uh, but all my superstar friends were. Um, then Tara completed her, uh, general surgery residency at New York Presbyterian Weill Cornell Medical Center, um, and that included a two year breast oncology research fellowship.

So you did the full seven. Uh, in terms of residency. So this is old school. So for those who don't know, all the programs now are combined where you do like some year, a couple years of general storage residency, usually like three or so. And then you do like two or three of plastics. Uh, this is, and that's sort of what I did.

Um, Tara went. A full seven years of general surgery, which included two years of research, um, which is what all of our mentors and the greats did back in the day, you know, extensive training. And then you completed your plastic surgery training at New York Presbyterian at the combined Columbia Cornell, uh, residency, uh, which includes also Memorial Sloan Kettering.

Harlem, Lenox Hill, Columbia, Cornell. So it's, it's quite an extensive, uh, number of institutions that you train at there. I was a very young, um, attending at the time at Cornell. Uh, and then after you completed your plastics residency, you went to Stony Brook where you did your medical school and you joined the faculty there.

Um, and you are now a full professor of surgery, uh, and dermatology, and you are board Certified in both general and plastic surgery still, uh, you are, um, president of the Stony Brook Medicine Medical Board, uh, so you have a huge administrative responsibility there. You're also, uh, chair of the, uh, School of Medicine Committee on Admissions, which is also a Ginormously huge, uh, responsibility, uh, if you know anything about medical school admissions.

And, um, you also are the president of the Northeastern Society of Plastic Surgeons. Was it this year? Yeah, that's huge as well. That's a,

[00:06:28] Dr. Tara Huston: year. My meeting is in September.

[00:06:29] Dr. Sam Rhee: congratulations. And that is the largest plastic surgery society in the Northeast. It's 600 members and I've attended meetings before there. It's, it's, it's amazing. It's tremendous.

Um, you also are an oral board examiner for the American Board of Plastic Surgeons. So, uh, in order to pass your boards in plastic surgery, you have a written test and then you have an oral, uh, exam. And so you fly out to a location and then you have these really scary examiners sit there and ask you a bunch of questions.

And that was one of the most memorable experiences of my life. And, and all, you know, it's really prestigious to be able to be a board examiner. You know, that, that. Um, and then you also conduct research. Um, it seems like you do a lot in, uh, melanoma, uh, studies, um, and breast reconstruction. So a lot of oncologic, uh, research.

And I can't even name all the societies and, uh, other, uh, programs. organizations that you're part of. Uh, you've authored over 40 peer reviewed publications, and um, I don't know how you managed to get all of these things done and where you are at this point. It's so impressive. So let me just start by asking you, how do you feel like your life is going right now at this very second?

with everything that you look back at and say, wow, look, you know, this is pretty impressive.

[00:07:52] Dr. Tara Huston: I don't see it as pretty impressive. I'm my own biggest critic. I always have been. I'm sure I always will be. Um, but I'm, I'm very happy that the hard work that I put in and the planning I feel has gotten to me to where I am. The full professor promotion just came through a couple of weeks ago. Um, and for me, that, that was huge.

That was something I had worked toward major academic accomplishment, um, that I'm very proud of. Especially when we talk about women in surgery, when you look at the numbers of women who go into surgery, who become assistant professors, associate professors, full professors, um, you know, program directors, division chiefs, the numbers drop off as you go further and further along.

So for me to have attained the full professor level, um, is really a very proud accomplishment.

[00:08:42] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah. It's huge. And I saw my mentors and other people who went down that path and it's, it's such a huge commitment. What in your training experience, or as you are coming up through, uh, becoming a surgeon motivated you and said, listen, this is really the path I want to take. Like, who was it in your life that said, that showed you this is something that.

You wanted to do,

[00:09:10] Dr. Tara Huston: That's a very good question. So back from kindergarten, if you asked me what I wanted to do, I would have said, I'm going to be a doctor when I grow up, and this is National Doctors Day today that we're speaking on. So apropos, um, I think in, in high school, I knew I wanted to go to the best college I could get into, do the hardest major I could, because then I was going to be the best physician.

So I was fortunate to get into Harvard. I went, I said, what's the toughest major I can pick? It was biochemistry. I did it. I would definitely choose something else. I advise everyone to do something else at this point. And then, um, I was fortunate to be able to come back near home to go to medical school.

I have a little sister, 15 years younger than me, and I just wanted to be near her when I went through medical school. And when I went to medical school, I was convinced I was going to be an OBGYN. I wanted to do reproductive endocrinology, make babies for everybody. Um, I felt women's health had been ignored.

That's what I learned as an undergraduate, and I was going to go and fix this for everyone. And in medical school, I did my OBGYN rotation and didn't really Love it. It wasn't for me. And a couple months later I came upon surgery and I met these wonderful mentors and people who were so excited about what they did, so passionate about coming to work every day.

It was so incredible that you could fix something right away. And I just took. to that. Um, I was actually convinced from a rotation at Memorial Sloan Kettering in medical school that I want to be a surgical oncologist and do melanoma surgery. I had worked with Dan Coy as a medical student and I said, this is it.

This is what I want to do. Um, and then when I had my interview at Cornell and met everyone there, I said, this is great. I can train here and then get to know everyone at Memorial. It's all going to work out. When I got to Cornell, I was fortunate to match there, um, and be able to do my general surgery training there.

I realized I don't want to be taking people apart. Then I met cool people like you, Sam, and said, I want to put these people back together properly. So, It took me six of my seven years of general surgery residency to come to that realization, because I loved everything I did. It was, it was fascinating.

The faculty were amazing. People were so passionate about what they did, and I needed to find my passion. So in my PGY 6 year, when I had to apply to plastics, I asked Tom Fahey, who was the program director, do you mind if I take a month off and do plastics? And he said, well, you better figure it out soon because you have to apply next month.

So I went ahead, did a month with all of you at that time. And I said, this is it. These are my people. This is what I'm doing. So I applied and was fortunate to be able to stay between Cornell and Columbia. So after finishing my, my seven years there, went on to do three more plastics.

[00:12:04] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah, you know, I was very young at the time and, uh, I, my most powerful memory of you at the time was one, how much respect you had from everybody because you had put so much time in as a resident and everyone knew you, everyone respected you, it didn't matter if they were, you know, The, um, circulator in the OR all the way up to every, the most senior attending.

Like, they knew who you were. Nobody, um, had anything bad to say. They only respected you. Uh, and you were the type of person that managed to get Everything done, no matter how unreasonable, no matter how, uh, awful that person was, was asking, you, you, you never faltered. And so, was that, like, part of your personality from the get go?

Because I don't think anyone, like, listen, surgeons are prickly people sometimes. There are a lot of people we know who rub people the wrong way, don't really, like, uh, play nice with people, you know. And yet, you never, I ruffled anybody's feathers and yet were the most highly competent. You were always like the hardest working, probably one of the most competent people in the room every time.

And how

[00:13:23] Dr. Tara Huston: you're way too kind.

[00:13:25] Dr. Sam Rhee: happen? Like, was that something you always had? Was that something you, you developed or, or saw in somebody and then sort of emulated?

[00:13:33] Dr. Tara Huston: That's an another good question. I think that's gotta be inborn. Um, having taught so many students being a parent, um, having been raised by a teacher mom, there's certain things that I don't think you can force kids to do as they're growing up or force people to change and become. You've heard the saying, if you want something done, give it to the busiest person, you know?

They will get the job done. And it was just always in me to completely get the job done. And I think having three kids with a surgery resident husband during my own surgical residency honed. I was an efficient person before, but it truly honed my efficiency skills. Um, to be able to take short maternities, go back.

When I was at the hospital, I was all business because I wanted to get out. At the best time I could, which was usually pretty late, so that I could see my kids before they went to bed. And my kids had the worst sleep schedules of anyone when it came to sleep training and, and all these things. We never did any of that.

You know, my kids knew they were loved and that was, that was it. Um, but I think that's gotta come from within that desire to get everything done, um, and just be a worker bee. And, and that's always been me and I think it always will be. I can't even get it out of me if I try.

[00:14:53] Dr. Sam Rhee: Was there a mentor that was particularly impactful for you as you were training? Um, Along this path.

[00:14:59] Dr. Tara Huston: So, I had a lot of mentors and I have been trying to think about this, you know, could I name just one and it would be near impossible. But for my general surgery training, I mean, Cornell had such an incredible faculty who had been trained there. By the generation before them, the whole standing on the shoulders of giants, um, Phil Barry and Tom Fahey were so instrumental in teaching me to be an outstanding general surgeon, a complete on my own general surgeon, before even going into plastic surgery.

How to take care of a sick patient, how to take care of anyone. And, and I'm still friendly with both of them today. And I speak with them frequently and see them at meetings. Um, you know, once I got into plastic surgery, I met the first person who I came out to. Was Mia Talmor. She became an attending the same day I became an intern.

And six years later, when I decided this is what I wanted to do, she was, I knew that from day one. I said, well, you could have told me back then, saved me a lot of time and energy. Um, but she's been a wonderful mentor, Lloyd Hoffman, Lloyd Gale, Jeff Asherman. My time with you, I still. I vividly remember the only bilateral cleft lip I ever did was with you in those 10th floor ORs.

And I do not do cleft now, but you taught me the basics very well, so thank you, Sam. So I think all of these people together, and a lot of them were trained by the same people the generation before, gave me such a solid foundation in how to be a physician first, how to treat sick patients, how to do operations.

And then on top of that, I became a plastic surgeon, which was definitely my calling. And like you talked about the old, um, pathway for training. I, I value that I was able to do that old pathway. I think it's difficult now for students. These students were so super smart and come right out of medical school and day one, you're doing this integrated program and you're a plastic surgeon from day one, but no one's taught you how to be a physician.

Or a surgeon first, and I think it's very difficult.

[00:17:09] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah, I, uh, there are definitely some aspects of training today, which, I mean, I understand why the pressures are what they are to make the programs the way they are, but you're right. Um, there's a depth, uh, and character building as well as knowledge base that I don't think you can get, uh, without, let's just say, additional years of experience post training in order to layer that into yourself.

That, that. Um, you and, and many people trained, uh, the way you trained have, um, it is deep. It is very deep how that training goes. Um, so then. One of the questions I sent you was how, give me a method or a means about how you became better as a surgeon that really stuck with you.

[00:18:02] Dr. Tara Huston: So for residency, for the 10 years that I was a resident in training, I think it's some of what you brought up earlier. I thought that you needed to show up, be present, never leave early and just practice your craft. Be there, be in the moment and focus. And thank goodness I didn't have a cell phone or candy crush because that would have taken me down during college and medical school.

Uh, um, you really just need to be there. And then as an attending, I feel what's made me better is being intensely critical of my own results. And there were a number of things in the first few years that I would look at and come into a room and say, and the patient would be happy. And I would try, I have a very honest face.

So it would be difficult for me if I saw something that I didn't like, but I did over time. And I criticized the whole experience. I criticized the way I did things and made it better. And in my practice, when I've adopted different changes, like four years ago, my breast reconstruction, I changed from the older behind the muscle to the newer in front of the muscle, um, method.

And there were a lot of little tweaks that I did from problems that I saw in the OR, problems that I saw in the office. I would discuss with colleagues at meetings. I mean, such a powerful reason to go to meetings, just to make yourself a better surgeon and be better to your patients. But it's really time served.

I think it's made me better.

[00:19:28] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah. That, that continuous self improvement as a surgeon, I think is so critical from getting average results to like great results or not even, and sometimes it's not even that it's just getting from point A to point B so much more efficiently and faster. Like, When I see very experienced surgeons, they make it seem so simple and so easy, but that's because they just cut out all of the extra stuff.

They know how to avoid all the little mistakes and like, they just kind of hone in on things. And so, I think that, um, And you're right. It's a process where you talk to others, you, you know, critically self evaluate your own results, and then you institute those changes over time. And so I, I don't think that as a starting surgeon, you're necessarily a bad surgeon.

It's just, um, you can become, you know, Continuously a better surgeon, you know, and I know you're in, you've been in practice with 11 years now

[00:20:30] Dr. Tara Huston: I'm starting my 14th year in

[00:20:32] Dr. Sam Rhee: 14th year, right? So 14 years, it's like you are, uh, you've really gotten to the point where you can get these, um, operations, you know,

[00:20:41] Dr. Tara Huston: I'm figuring it out.

[00:20:43] Dr. Sam Rhee: yeah. I mean, we all are still continuously, but, but that's 14 years is a lot of experience, uh, you know, under your belt at this point.

Um, so then, uh, What are one of your favorite procedures that you like to do? Because at 14 years, you might get a little burnt out of certain things. And what is it that you still really enjoy doing operating?

[00:21:02] Dr. Tara Huston: I love doing anything with breasts. Breast reconstruction is what keeps me going, to be honest. The actual operation that I actually love and I tell patients is my best operation is nipple reconstruction. I think it's so cool that we can take a blank mound and create a 3D construct on it that sometimes looks better than the original.

We don't have sensation perfect yet. That's the next frontier and I'm working on that too, but I love making nipples.

[00:21:34] Dr. Sam Rhee: That's awesome. Um, when you do operate, what do you do now? That's part of your setup or routine that. is really important for you. You know, we all have rituals as surgeons. I've seen surgeons have very odd rituals sometimes. Is there a particular thing that you like to do or sort of gets you optimized in order to like, make sure that procedure goes well for you?

[00:21:59] Dr. Tara Huston: Something I always try to do and it's not exactly room setup, but it is with every case, is to be there when the patient is going to sleep. I tell her, I tell the patient, I'm going to be there when you go to sleep and I'm there to hold her hand. I have one hand holding her hand. The other hand is maybe rubbing her arm or her shoulder, uh, where the medication is going in.

Uh, but for me, it's so critical to be there at that point of the, I think that's the greatest point of anxiety for a patient. They're letting go, they're trusting that everyone in that room is going to take care of them, and I want them to know that I will be there with them the whole time. So that's honestly, and room set up, everything, lighting, Whatever's there, the fact that I am there with the patient when she's going to sleep.

And I try to teach that to my residents.

[00:22:50] Dr. Sam Rhee: I think that's really important. And, um, I have tried to do that in the past. I think I'm pretty good at doing that almost every time. Um, And there's no doubt, I think, in my mind, at least for me, that makes a difference. I agree with you. Um, being patient centered, especially at that moment, that critical moment where they're, like you said, at their most vulnerable, really, um, means a lot that they know that the surgeon, the person that's operating on them, is going to be there for them.

Um, what do you listen to in the OR when you, when you're operating?

[00:23:21] Dr. Tara Huston: I actually like quiet for the majority of the case. I'll turn on today's hits when we're suturing closed at the end, but I feel like music during the case stops me from Quizzing the medical students and the residents and the nurses, not only about where people are from, what they're interested in, what they did that weekend, but to let them know about the patient and with our suction bovies now, where there's more, um, vacuum and more noise in the room, it's just too much noise.

I find it stressful. So 80s for closing, maybe a little bit of country music or Dolly Parton here or there. My daughter is a sophomore down at Clemson. So I've been spending more time down South and I've gotten into country music.

[00:24:01] Dr. Sam Rhee: Oh, wow. Hey, congratulations on making the Elite Eight. Uh, that is huge. Uh,

[00:24:06] Dr. Tara Huston: you. Very excited.

[00:24:07] Dr. Sam Rhee: I'm a Duke fan, but, uh, I, uh, I am, uh, rooting for Clemson big time, uh, unless we meet in the Final Four or something like that. But, uh, yeah, Clemson is such an awesome place. It's so funny that a football school is now, uh, Also a basketball school

[00:24:23] Dr. Tara Huston: Oh, absolutely.

[00:24:24] Dr. Sam Rhee: Have you, have you gone to any games at Clemson?

[00:24:27] Dr. Tara Huston: I went to a game, a football game last year and then another football game this year and it's one of the most fun times I've ever had so I told her I'm going to make at least two if not three for next fall.

[00:24:39] Dr. Sam Rhee: That's awesome. Um, so who is part of your team that you find particularly important either in the OR or in your professional life? Who is it that really helps you become Dr. Tara Huston, that

[00:24:55] Dr. Tara Huston: So I think my closest work colleague is my physician assistant. She's unbelievable. She came to me about eight years ago right out of PA school so I've been able to teach her. Everything the way I know it, the way I do it, and she's truly an extension of me, uh, with my patients. And they understand that, you know, speaking to either one of us is kind of getting my opinion.

And it's wonderful to have someone who is so smart, so talented, so efficient, so hardworking, um, to team up with me to take care of my patients. She's actually out on maternity right now. She just had her third baby boy in three years, and I miss her terribly. I did point out to her that with my third baby, I only had a two week maternity.

So I think she's fine and could come back, but I'm trying to be generous.

[00:25:48] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yes, those were the days. Uh, yeah, two weeks. Wow. That was very generous back then. I mean, geez, they probably, uh, I mean, I knew, you know, that was so funny. I remember, um, one of my co interns at the time, uh, was pregnant coming into residency. And, uh, The senior staff were outraged that she had the gall to become pregnant before she started her residency.

Uh, you were only supposed to do that when you're in research fellowship. Like, how dare you, you know, start a residency and become pregnant? So, you know, you talk about women in leadership positions and you are now, um, sitting at the table for a lot of Uh, positions, you, you're head of the medical board, you're, uh, faculty chair of the medical, uh, sorry, committee, uh, admissions, medical school, uh, admissions, um, so, and, and you're president of, uh, any, uh, uh, Northeastern Society, so, at this point, how is it, what do you think needs to change?

I mean, you've been through the fire, like, what is it that you're, uh, looking at and saying, these are things that need to be better either in plastic surgery, in medical school admissions, uh, physicians in general, since you're a head of the medical board. What is it that you see or have seen and now you're like, um, how can we make things better?

What, what are the things that you're sort of affecting or,

[00:27:19] Dr. Tara Huston: I think one, one thing that has to change, and I am working on changing this myself, is just having, More women in these positions. Um, a colleague once said, you have to see it to be it. She recently said, you have to see it to be it. So it's important for me that the medical students, the residents, see women in leadership and know that they can go through all this.

They can go through the same training that their male colleagues are going through, and then they can obtain the same leadership positions. I think when I was a medical student, so I was a medical student, late nineties. By then we had 50 percent of women in medical school matriculating, graduating. So now we're really a whole generation from that.

And unfortunately at the highest levels of leadership, we don't have a whole lot of women. So there are a lot of theories. Is there a leaky pipeline? Um, you know, is there a glass ceiling holding women back? But from the positions that I've achieved so far, I feel that the hardest

I'm incredibly proud of the Northeastern Society and my wonderful male mentors, one of which is, uh, Jeff Asherman from Columbia, who's really pushed me forward in the society, helped me get into the society, helped me move along. That's not only mentorship, but sponsorship, um, from him. So for the Northeastern Society, we had one.

Uh, woman president in 1998, Mary McGrath. And then from 1998 to, and she went on to be president of PSF, many other wonderful things. I've spoken to her recently. She's very happy in her retirement out in California doing well, but in, from 1998 to now, it's been all male presidents. So it was very exciting for me, for the society.

Um, when Howard Langstein handed me that gavel last September for me to become president. The second female president in the first in 25 years of this, you know, very large, very prestigious plastic society. But I think for more young women to see more senior women achieve these roles makes you think, that's okay.

Someone's there. That's a normal spot that maybe I can achieve one day. And I really owe my mailman. Almost all male mentors that I've had to help me get to this point.

[00:29:46] Dr. Sam Rhee: You practice what you preach. I mentioned earlier, um, before we started that I looked at the CV you sent me, and you're one of the few people I've ever seen who listed the people you mentored. And there's well over, what, 30, 40 some people on that, and you list what they're doing, and not all of them are plastic surgeons.

A lot of them are doing many different things, you know, ranging from pathology or, or other sciences and, uh, What made you feel like that was something you could put on your CV? Because I love that. I think everyone should do that. I think anyone who you've impacted should, should be part of your list of accomplishments.

Um, where did you get that idea and how did you like, what, what, what prompted you to do that?

[00:30:44] Dr. Tara Huston: So, and I was on the admissions committee and I was in a field that students found very exciting, plastic surgery, cause we know what we do is amazing.

Um, so students would, and the other. Aspect of me that I think students found interesting and wanted to come say, how do I put this into my life? Is that I met my husband in medical school. We went through our general surgery, we couples matched, went through our general surgery training together. So we were married surgeons, uh, which there are more and more couples now, but 20 some odd years ago there weren't quite as many.

And we had three kids during residency. So a lot of both men and women sought me out initially to just ask me about life planning. In addition to, you know, can I go through a surgery residency and being able to give any advice that I could and telling them, I don't think that the way I did it was perfect.

None of us think that the way we did it was perfect. And that scale where you're trying to balance life, work, your sanity, your health is. Totally off balance and probably broken for most of us, uh, but we get by. And helping the students write papers, become interested in the field, um, you know, engaging them in other divisions or departments, uh, was also very important to me. I find it incredibly fulfilling.

[00:32:04] Dr. Sam Rhee: So, you are where you are now, after 14 years, and, uh, what is it that you hope to accomplish now, in the future, now that you've gotten to where you are?

[00:32:17] Dr. Tara Huston: I feel so fortunate to have gotten where I am. And at this point, I think I'm finally comfortable with the surgeries I do, where I have my flow state as, as you've discussed before, and I get in the zone and I know what I'm doing. I hope to obtain more leadership roles, to be able to, guide the future of our field further and to give back to not only the people who have helped me get here, but to the ones, or pay it forward maybe, to the the ones coming up behind me.

[00:32:49] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah, um, in order to become a leader, and where you are, and where you are planning to go, um, a lot of it is, um, There are skills that aren't necessarily surgical skills. There's surgical skills where you're operating, you're very facile, you can, you know, you're visual, you are very, uh, you have excellent high, uh, hand eye coordination.

All of those are sort of, you know, you're able to clinically assess situations. Those are all prerequisites for being a surgeon, but being a leader and managing and administrating are, it's a very different skillset. Like I know very, uh, Many surgeons who are excellent surgeons, not so great as leadership or team management or, or anything where you would say, uh, yeah, you should be in charge of, you know, Like 50 people or a hundred people, like some of us don't have that kind of skillset, but, um, it seems like the most successful surgeons, including you who are impacting larger numbers of people have to have those leadership skills.

So what is it that you have? Did you have those? Did you develop them as you were going along, like dealing with the politics? You are in a large academic medical center, dealing with large numbers of Um, administrators and other surgeons and other people and other providers. Like, what is it that has helped you navigate or what skill set, how'd you pick that up in order to do these things?

[00:34:13] Dr. Tara Huston: Similar to drive and efficiency, which I think a lot of them are inborn. I do feel that a number of leadership skills are inborn and some people tend to possess more than others, but it's also a skill set that you need to work on, study and practice. Um, for me. The most, one of the most important tenets in dealing with everyone around me, my colleagues, my residents, um, everywhere in life.

And, and this is something I do teach the residents. You need to be transparent. You need to practice your communication and you need to respect those around you. So I think with, with those three, I try, I've tried to lead by example. Any group that I go into, any position I take on, organization I lead, I try to make better while I'm there as opposed to just having the position and to grow those around me and strengthen those around me.

I took the ASPS Essentials of Leadership course. I don't know if you've done that one yet. Um, but

[00:35:17] Dr. Sam Rhee: yet.

[00:35:18] Dr. Tara Huston: it's available to us as plastic surgeons and it was during the pandemic. So, every Saturday, we were able to, you know, Zoom with the group. You get to know a whole group of plastic surgeons much, much better, but they talk about communication skills, personality skills, public speaking skills, managing difficult people.

So, I think some are, some humans are better innately than others at doing these things, um, but just. Realizing that you need to address all these points is very important. So I've, I've been working on my leadership skills. Um,

[00:35:55] Dr. Sam Rhee: Clearly you have, like, I mean, very much so. Um, so, I know that you probably love what you, you say you love what you do now, and you have so many aspirations about being a writer. Making more of an impact in the future. But at some point, someday you will probably stop doing what you're doing. And we know surgeons, there's some that just keep going until they literally can't hold a scalpel in their hands anymore.

And then those who just kind of right off into the sunset early and and have other lives or do other things, like what is it that you foresee or picture yourself in the future? And when is that? And how soon is it? And you know, what will that be for

[00:36:37] Dr. Tara Huston: It took me so long to get where I am, and I love what I do so much that I think I'm going to be that girl holding the scalpel until someone tells me, you have to put it down now, Tara. I'll never want to stop operating, caring for patients, teaching my residents and my students. I derive so much satisfaction from all of that.

I do enjoy free time as well. Um, and I love being with my kids who are getting older, maybe one day far down the line. It would be nice, very far down the line. It'd be nice to have grandkids to hang out with. Um, I have a great Dane and a yellow lab. I love spending time with my dogs. We, we just got a boat, so we're, we're going to become boat people.

[00:37:19] Dr. Sam Rhee: you?

[00:37:19] Dr. Tara Huston: It's the, the first team building activity. My husband and I have come across in a really long time and it's been fun. And as surgeons, we love to tinker and do things with our hands. Um, so maybe we'll want to spend more time on the water or maybe that'll be a huge financial disaster, like everyone else says it is, and we won't do that.

Um, but, but for me, I think I'm going to try to continue this doctoring for as long as I can.

[00:37:43] Dr. Sam Rhee: I never like talking about work life balance with surgeons because there's really, that's kind of, first of all, I think most surgeons who are really truly hardcore old school Don't even believe in that term. Like, there's no such thing as work life balance. You just, you just do what you love to do, and then everything else kind of falls where it is, but you had more challenges than most in the sense that you had three kids during residency.

You, your, your spouse is also a surgeon. So, um, are there, like, I don't want to say compromises, but are, were there compromises? particular challenges that needed to be overcome? Or was this just everyone's on the same page, you know, kids get in line, you know where you are, you know what we're doing. This is our life.

This is what we're going to do. Or was there any, any kind of road bumps along the way that sort of had to make you stop and think about things a little bit?

[00:38:40] Dr. Tara Huston: So, I feel that I was very fortunate to meet someone with a similar drive and a similar level of efficiency to me in medical school. And then we went on and both chose to train in surgery together. So, he understood if I left at 5 in the morning and came home at 9 or 10 at night. When we were interns and we lived in Pace and House across from New York Hospital, the deal was the first person home calls for takeout.

I think the hardest part of that first year was actually the current chief resident who will remain unnamed, knew that a couple was coming and thought it would be, out of 25 interns that you had that year, thought it would be funny to place us opposite each other at Jamaica. So, you know, Jamaica Hospital is where you go 24 hour, each team is 24 hours, right?

And then the team comes back with a Jamaica van and the other one comes. So for the month of March, during our intern year, we only saw each other at sign out every morning.

[00:39:39] Dr. Sam Rhee: Oh my God.

[00:39:40] Dr. Tara Huston: Yeah, and we didn't complain. So, I think we're both pretty tough, and that helped us get through. And then, since we'd both done a good job that first year, they said, We're gonna give you a gift.

Since you're a couple, and we know you're getting married at the end of this year, We came just engaged. They said, We're gonna let you take vacation together this year. So they allowed us to schedule at least two of our four weeks of vacation together, which was a huge piece of generosity on the part of the training program.

[00:40:14] Dr. Sam Rhee: I mean, yeah.

[00:40:17] Dr. Tara Huston: we understood each other's challenges and when someone was working late or there's a take back, there's an emergency, there's a trauma. Neither one of us would ever give each other a hard time. You know, as, as far as. Being pregnant, that was probably rougher on me than on him for us, but we were fortunate, we were lucky fertility wise, not everyone is, that we could have our first two kids in our research years.

So, I was just a pregnant research resident most of the time. Um, I was able to take off 6 weeks with my first, 4 weeks with my second, and then my third guy we had in my PGY 10 year of training. So it was, it was toward the end and I had been told, well, you can take more than two weeks if you want, but then you're going to have to extend your training.

So I said, no, thank you. I, I got this, hold my baby. It's like, hold my beer and, and I got this and I went back and I finished training and I am very, very close to, to my little guy now, so I don't think he remembers how hard it was and he's fine for it,

[00:41:21] Dr. Sam Rhee: Um, I don't want to be one of those curmudgeons who are like, back in the day we did this and now this generation is this, that, or the other, but without being too curmudgeonly, what differences do you see? Is it, is it just that everything is better now in terms of how you see the development of new providers, new students, new surgeons?

Um, or is there anything to be said for What you went through, what we went through, um, in training as well.

[00:41:58] Dr. Tara Huston: I think that the young generation is more socially advanced than we were. We went, we showed up. I'm, I remember just putting my nose down to the grindstone and then lifted it 10 years later and I was done. And during that time, my time was not my own, no matter what I had to do. I somehow not even sure how I got to those pediatrician appointments, how my kids had things in preschool that I probably missed most of, but I belonged.

To New York Hospital and New York Presbyterian Hospital for those 10 years with no question in my head. You asked me to do something. I smiled and I got it done. Did I always want to do it? Did I always agree it was probably the right thing that I had to do? No. But did I complain about it? Nope. I just did it for right or wrong.

Our students and our residents are more advanced now and they, they want. And they expect to have a life outside of school and outside of residency. And I think that's very hard because to get your skillset as a surgeon, as a physician, as a surgeon, as a plastic surgeon, you really need to experience. The full scope of care.

You need to experience the complication, experience the take back, experience the full operation. But when a work hour ends at six and the medical student is supposed to leave at six, but maybe the venous anastomosis didn't work and it has to be redone four times and it's going to go into one in the morning, the student doesn't see that until they become a resident or a faculty member.

So I do feel like it's a little bit harder for trainees today to have All of those expectations and to believe that they can, you know, have a positive, fulfilling life during residency. Not that I didn't have a positive, fulfilling life during residency, but I kind of didn't and I'm okay for it now. And I'm enjoying myself now.

And I value all those hours that I spent in the hospital, but I think it's very challenging. And I, I do hope that as young faculty. The students and residents, you know, will finally learn as much as we did in perhaps, you know, the more hours that we spent in residency. It just might take a little longer, but I believe they'll get there.

[00:44:17] Dr. Sam Rhee: This is such a cliche question and I get asked this a lot and I always sigh, but I answer and so I'll ask, I'll ask you. So if any one of your children grew up and said, Hey, listen, I want to do what what you're doing or what you're doing. You know, what dad is doing. What would you say to them?

[00:44:36] Dr. Tara Huston: Absolutely. It's funny. Two out of three think they want to become physicians.

[00:44:41] Dr. Sam Rhee: Really?

[00:44:42] Dr. Tara Huston: In our, our house, we are so pro our careers. My husband and I, we are. Love what we do. Um, he's a trauma surgeon and a researcher and a surgical educator. And really when you talk about the line between professional and personal, it's totally blurred for both of us and our marriage and our family and our life.

Um, we're so entrenched in it. It's unfortunately all the kids have ever seen, but they see a very positive side to it. We're not complaining about the hours. We're not complaining about what we do. I understand there are a lot of pressures. We're so excited to be able to do what we do, and I think the kids see that from both of us.

[00:45:25] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah.

[00:45:26] Dr. Tara Huston: would encourage it.

[00:45:27] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah. Well, I think it's because you love it so much, both you and your spouse. And that, that's important when your children see you do something that you love. Is that really work? You're right. Like. But it's not easy either for people to really love what they do or to find something that they love so much that it's, that, that, that's how they feel about it.

So that's awesome. Um, so what else do you say to all of your students, uh, your residents, anything else that you feel is like a critical piece of advice that you try to impress upon them? Uh, when they're kind of going through this process. You

[00:46:10] Dr. Tara Huston: clock, number one, the famous old adage, and it is true. And also don't let anyone tell you no. If you truly believe you can do something, or you truly believe you're right, it might be a harder path, it might be a longer path, but you can get there. And there were plenty of people when I said, I don't want to do OB GYN, I want to do surgery, I think that's me.

They said, are you sure? Don't you want to get married? Don't you want to have kids? Don't you want to have a life? And I said, Well, yes, yes, and yes, but I want to be a surgeon too. And I almost had to convince people around me at the time. Um, but once I became involved in my residency, like you pointed out, you're not questioning gender, you're not questioning the person, you just want to see someone work hard and do a good job.

And if anyone tells you no, but you believe you can work hard and do a good job, just keep plugging ahead. You'll get there.

[00:47:04] Dr. Sam Rhee: know, I listened to you and you can't fake that kind of desire drive and sort of grit. Like either you have, I look at different surgeons and I want to say like, some of them sort of came upon where they came. Uh, they developed or grew along the way, but I feel like if I saw you at age, like you said, six, and now, like, I think your mindset in terms of getting things done and doing, and, you know, really just not stopping is, that would be the same.

Do you, you always had that? That wasn't something you ever had to manufacture or create. Is that your family? Is that just you unique?

[00:47:48] Dr. Tara Huston: I think it's, it's my mom. She ingrained that in me and in my two little sisters who are both attorneys. The other problematic thing she ingrained in me is that I'm never wrong. So if anything else happens around me, it's the other person always. My tarot is never wrong, but you know, just lots of parental support.

And when my kids were little and I said, mom, what am I going to do? I'm working all the time. They're never going to see me. They're never going to remember me. She said, your kids need to know that they are a hundred percent loved and a hundred percent supported by you and everything will turn out okay.

And she's right.

[00:48:26] Dr. Sam Rhee: Well, Tara, this has been so inspirational. Like, um, it's so great to see where you've gone, where you were before. I could tell back then that you were going to be able to do whatever you wanted to do. And to see you now is like, it's incredible. Like, I don't know of anyone else sort of in this situation who has been able to sort of accomplish what you've accomplished in the time that you've accomplished.

Um, and. Clearly, Stony Brook is going to be so much better for you being a leader, for having done what you've done. They should be so thankful they accepted you to medical school there, because you have built your alma mater into, like, a powerhouse. That's, that's crazy. Um,

[00:49:13] Dr. Tara Huston: Thank you.

[00:49:15] Dr. Sam Rhee: so I would say, uh, thank you again for spending the time, um, to share your experiences.

Um, I know I would want, um, anyone who's sort of thinking about what they want to do, especially if it's surgery, to take heart in the fact that if they have that ambition, if they have that desire, if that's what they want to do, regardless, because I know how difficult And how many challenges all of us, but especially women in surgery had at the time.

Um, and the fact that you're, you're actively making things better for people to make it, um, a better opportunity for everyone to succeed. Like that's, that's amazing. So thank you again, Tara. And I look forward to, I can't wait for the next 14 years. Cause you might, I don't know where you're going to be at that point.

I mean, if there's a, uh, you know, we'll, we'll just have to wait and see.

[00:50:07] Dr. Tara Huston: Hopefully, I'll see you at the Northeastern Society meeting this September in Philadelphia.

[00:50:11] Dr. Sam Rhee: you're right. I hate, honestly, I, you're right. I hate organized plastic surgery in general. I'm sorry, that's just my thing, but, um, but because now you're running it, uh, I, I am going to be part of it. Yes, that's right. All right. Thank you so much

[00:50:24] Dr. Tara Huston: Thank you. Take care. Bye.