S04E83 - Behind the Scenes with the CrossFit Games Head Orthopaedic Surgeon: Dr. Sean Rockett

Ever wondered what it takes to be the Head Orthopaedic Surgeon for the CrossFit Games? Join us as Dr. Sean Rockett @321gomd, who has been the lead surgeon for the CrossFit Games since 2012, shares his journey from practicing CrossFit in 2007 to treating elite athletes on the biggest stage. We'll hear firsthand about gut-wrenching experience treating Brooke Wells' severe elbow dislocation during the 2021 Games. Dr. Rockett also dives into the unique challenges of gaining the trust of top-level athletes.

Dr. Rocket opens up about the synergy between CrossFit and orthopedic surgery, emphasizing the vital role of efficiency in both his workouts and surgical procedures. You'll learn about common injuries like shoulder and back issues that plague CrossFit athletes and how tailored approaches can ensure optimal recovery. Through his dynamic experiences at the surgery center, Dr. Rocket highlights the detective work involved in diagnosing and treating injuries effectively, offering valuable insights for athletes and medical professionals alike.

And in a heart-warming and emotional turn, Dr. Rockett also discusses his parents, who were both surgeons. His father was a neurosurgeon and mother was a general surgeon and one of the first women residents at Boston City Hospital in the 1950s and a true pioneer for women in medicine in the United States. The emotion and feeling Dr. Rockett has talking about his parents and their influence on his life is tremendously powerful.

And finally, don't forget to check out Dr. Rocket's newly released e-book, "When Does it Hurt," which offers practical advice on exercise-related injuries, with proceeds supporting the Navy SEAL Foundation and Folds of Honor. https://www.roguefitness.com/where-does-it-hurt-ebook

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@crossfittraining @crossfit @crossfitgames #crossfit #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #clean #fitness #ItAllStartsHere #CrossFitOpen #CrossFit #CrossFitCommunity @CrossFitAffiliates #supportyourlocalbox #crossfitaffiliate #personalizedfitness

00:00 Welcome to Botox and Burpees: Surgical Edition

00:27 Dr. Sean Rocket's High-Profile CrossFit Injury

02:59 Behind the Scenes of Brooke Wells' Injury

07:05 Dr. Rocket's Background and Career

09:35 The CrossFit Journey Begins

12:57 Orthopedic Surgery Insights and Innovations

18:22 Managing CrossFit Injuries and Patient Care

24:18 Balancing Surgery and CrossFit

30:18 Music and Team Dynamics in the OR

32:28 Shoutout to Denise and Alice

32:53 Balancing a Busy Surgical Schedule

33:22 Peak Performance and Second Opinions

34:18 Taking Time Off and Avoiding Burnout

36:44 Involvement in CrossFit Games

39:44 Interacting with CrossFit Athletes

44:23 Family Background and Influence

47:08 Future Goals and Doing the Right Thing

50:00 Advice for Aspiring Surgeons

53:15 Promoting CrossFit and Healthy Living

01:00:37 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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S04E83 - Behind the Scenes with the CrossFit Games Head Orthopaedic Surgeon: Dr. Sean Rockett

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:04] Dr. Sam Rhee: The CrossFit Games begin this week in Fort Worth, Texas, and my podcast guest is someone that you hope never to see there unless an injury happens to an athlete. And then you will really definitely want to see him out there on the competition floor.

And that person is Dr. Sean Rockett head, orthopedic surgeon at the CrossFit Games since 2012. This interview was a dream come true for me. A rare combination of two joys in my life, surgery and CrossFit. I met Dr. Rockett at the CrossFit Health Summit this past February in Austin, Texas.

A polite, quiet guy sat down next to me, we said hi, and he said his name was Sean and he was an orthopedic surgeon in Boston. And in between lectures, we talked some shop, like how big his practice group was, was he operating at the hospitals or outpatient centers more, how much call he took, mundane stuff like that.

And after a while, I asked if he was into CrossFit and he said he had been doing it since 2007, which is very early in the history of CrossFit. I asked how he got involved, and he said he and his wife met Ben Bergeron at CrossFit New England. And I started to get suspicious, and I asked him, what was your name again?

And he said, Sean Rockett. And I said, wait. You're the head medical guy for the CrossFit Games, aren't you? The one who took care of Brooke Wells when she dislocated her elbow doing that heavy snatch? And I told him, you know, You probably should be leading with that when you meet people at CrossFit events.

And if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see the selfie I took when I was fangirling with him at the conference. We cover an amazing number of topics in the interview, starting right away with Brooke Wells devastating injury and what it was like to care for her in such an emergent high profile setting.

And then we talk about his career as an orthopedic surgeon and what he does to make sure his cases are perfectly planned and executed. And then of course, we talk about CrossFit and its injury risk. And if he himself has ever been injured in a CrossFit workout. I ask him how difficult or challenging it is to work with high level CrossFit athletes at the Games, especially when an injury happens after they've been training all year to compete.

How does he get them to trust him and listen to him? And for me, one of the most heartwarming parts is when he talks about his parents, who are both surgeons. His father was a neurosurgeon and his mother was a general surgeon and one of the first women residents at Boston City Hospital in the 1950s. and a true pioneer for women in medicine in the United States.

The emotion and feeling Sean has talking about his parents and his influence on his life was totally moving and tremendously powerful for me.

We also talk about the e book that he was finishing up at the time of the podcast recording, and it's actually just come out. The e book is called Where Does It Hurt? and it's available on Rogue's website for purchase, and the link will be in the podcast episode description. It's 25 dollars and proceeds will be donated to the Navy SEAL Foundation and Folds of Honor.

If you have shoulder, hip, knee, wrist, anklel, or any other kind of muscular issue, but especially if it's exercise related, whether it's pickleball or CrossFit, this is the best and clearest publication I have ever read. The explanations and diagrams are so clear, the advice on diagnosing and treatment options is practical and excellent.

Whether it's a slap tear of the shoulder, Hip arthritis, tennis elbow, patellofemoral syndrome of the knee, plantar fasciitis, or anything and everything in between. This is the publication to check out first when you feel something click, pop, slide, or lock up on you.

Talking to Dr. Rockett was definitely inspiring. I love plastic surgery, but there's always a little part of me that wonders what it would have been like to have been an orthopedic surgeon. Be on the lookout for him at the CrossFit Games, where I'm sure he'll be working hard on the sidelines.

And I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did talking to Sean. Thank you very much.

All right, welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees, the surgical edition. I have with me a very, very special guest. Uh, I'm kind of fangirling actually. It's been, uh, it's been amazing and I'm so thankful that he has agreed to, to guest with me. And this is Dr. Sean Rockett. He's an orthopedic surgeon and he has also been the head orthopedic surgeon for the CrossFit Games since 2011, as well as, um, A, uh, orthopedic surgeon with Orthopedics New England since 1999, and, and we'll get into his background a little bit, but I want to start first with one of the highest profile, um, sort of incidents or injuries, uh, at the CrossFit Games, uh, which, uh, happened back in 2022, I think, right?

Yeah. 2020, sorry, 2021. It was the CrossFit Games, July 2021. And it was with Brooke Wells. And I'm going to read a couple passages from her book, Resilient, where she talks about the injury and how you cared for her at that time. And I think if anyone is in, into CrossFit, they remember this very vividly. I remember watching it and it was burnt into my brain.

And so let me just read to you a couple passages and then I would like to hear your thoughts about this. So this was, um, Event 12 that she describes in the CrossFit Games, and this was at Madison, and she was attempting a 190 pound snatch. And so, for the non CrossFit athletes, a snatch is an Olympic weightlift, uh, movement, where you're basically taking the barbell from the ground and finishing overhead.

And she And, you know, 190 pounds is friggin insane, honestly, for,

[00:05:38] Dr. Sean Rockett: That's a lot. That's a

[00:05:40] Dr. Sam Rhee: so, it is. So, so this is what she says. So, she says, quote, Two seconds after the bar begins moving, it comes to an obedient stop in my palms. Directly over my center of gravity, a textbook lift. Hell yeah. I start to smile.

Snap. A vile snapping sound like a bullet. Branch breaking off a tree is the only warning. My right arm, perfectly stable a moment ago, suddenly gives out under the barbell as if it's been shot by an invisible sniper, and my elbow folds grotesquely at an unnatural angle under the force of the bar thud.

Through my tears, I recognize Dr. Sean Rockett, the head orthopedic CrossFit Games medical team. The presence of a doctor makes me realize what help is likely to entail, my dislocated elbow going back the same way it came out with extreme force. It comes before I know what's happening. Dr. Rockett, Sean, has his hands on my forearm and the other on my bicep.

He pulls and twists at the same time, and I scream in unexpected pain and terror. When I look down again, Sean is frowning at my arm, which is just as deformed as it was before. Don't worry, he says in a deep, calm voice that is completely at odds with the panic I feel. We're going to get this back in place.

After, uh, so you transport her off the stage, you numb the area, you get the x rays and reduce the dislocation. And, uh, she says, I need to hold it together because he's preparing. To reduce my elbow again, this is as you're doing the reduction, he pulls and twists, but I can barely feel it when the bone finally jumps back into place.

I hear the thwop sounds as it makes, though, and I know my elbow is back where it belongs. And she suffered a complete ulnar collateral ligament tear, medial flexor mass, and pronator detachment from the medial epicondyle, and partial lateral collateral ligament tear. And so, your thoughts about that injury and, and what you went through with that.

[00:07:32] Dr. Sean Rockett: Bringing me back. It's, uh, my heart starts racing again. Palms are sweaty. You know, Eminem and, uh, Aiden Weinbauer.

[00:07:45] Dr. Sam Rhee: Mom's spaghetti. Yes,

[00:07:50] Dr. Sean Rockett: one, the setup was a Saturday night. You know, she was solo. performer in the middle of this packed, lit up crowd, national TV, and 10 other people that night had fallen or had missed their lifts. And I thought that's what this was, just she fell back. And I'm watching, I'm ground level, so I don't want to be up, I want to be, you know, near the I'm ground level, she falls back, and I can't Didn't see anything, you know, she's lying flat.

And so that was people like, Oh, it took him so long to get out there. But, uh, then once she sat up and I saw that her elbow was deformed, you know, that's when we jumped up. She is a very strong person, right? She's very muscular. My hands, like, you know, I have size eight gloves and I think, you know, we're pretty big, but.

When I got out there, like, I was like, wow, she's got big arms. And she also had a sleeve, like a big neoprene sleeve on her arm. And I think that also contributed to the fact that I couldn't get it back like right away. Usually you try to get it back right away. You try to pop it in before they even know what's going on.

Like that just helps if you can just get it quickly and, you know, quick drop the mic moment, that's always a good thing, but we tried and I didn't want to try too long out there. And we went away from the crowd, but then I realized underneath was all her family and her coaches and everybody underneath in the rink.

And so I wanted to, I, we literally went into the tunnel and closed the curtains. So we're in the tunnel trying to do it again, and I couldn't get it. So finally I realized, you know, we're going to need, I was worried there was a fracture. I was worried there was something prohibiting me from getting it.

Like blocking, if you have a little fracture of the radial head, you can, it'll block the, the joint. So we do have a floral machine at the CrossFit Games. And so we got a floral, saw that there was nothing else broken, which is great, which made me feel better that, you know, I didn't have to deal with a fracture also, uh, and then the numbing, we did lidocaine, a couple, you know, 10 cc's of lidocaine.

And that right away just released all the pain. And once the pain and the tension of the biceps and the triceps pulling, and she's got strong biceps and triceps, once, once the, the contraction went away, it was easy. Yeah.

[00:10:17] Dr. Sam Rhee: Was that, uh, one of the worst injuries you've seen, say, on the competitive side of, uh, things?

[00:10:23] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That was, that was

[00:10:26] Dr. Sam Rhee: Well,

[00:10:27] Dr. Sean Rockett: being shoulder dislocations and other people, you know, shoulder dislocations, but this was sort of more, you know, heavier weight, more dramatic.

[00:10:35] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah. And I've seen shoulder dislocations in the ER, and I've seen the ortho guys reduce them, and that's not always fun. Like, yeah, and they have all their tricks and, like, positionings and ways of, yeah, distracting the arm and all that. And that's, uh, I never, uh, you know. I never, I felt very badly for the patient and I felt badly for the ortho guy who had to, who had to handle that.

Um, but let me go through your background now that I wanted to sort of get that, um, very vivid memory out. So, um, you, uh, you are a native of Brookline, Massachusetts. You, uh, got your B. A. in biology, uh, from Harvard. You're, you're like a Massachusetts, Harvard, like Brahman, like blue blood. Guy. Like, everything that I've seen about you.

Y you

[00:11:21] Dr. Sean Rockett: Irish, Irish, Irish, Irish, Catholic, different than the Brahmins.

[00:11:28] Dr. Sam Rhee: uh, okay. Alright, alright.

[00:11:29] Dr. Sean Rockett: Long time, Boston, long time, Boston person.

[00:11:33] Dr. Sam Rhee: Um, you actually played a year of football until you had a labral tear of your shoulder. I, I heard that on, on one of the podcasts and that was unfortunate. Um, but your, your father was a neurosurgeon and he was a team physician.

He, uh, for Boston college, Harvard sports. And so you had a pretty early. experience, even as a young one, sort of seeing medical care, and also your mother, and I'd like to talk about that in a little bit. But you went ahead and you got your medical degree at Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston, and then you did your orthopedic surgery residency there as well.

And so you are assistant clinical professor at Tufts, you have your practice in that area. And you've been a coach for Wellesley football, softball, uh, soccer. Um, you've sort of, um, been associated with team sports for your entire career, as well as, as I mentioned, the head orthopedic surgeon for the CrossFit Games.

Um, you've been a CrossFit athlete since 2007. So that's like 17 years. And I've seen all of your work. Like you are The OG of OGs when it comes to CrossFit, you are the medical authority. You have a website 321GoMD. You have, uh, um, your website orthopedicsne. com and you have a great Instagram, um, which is 321GoMD and, and I've seen all the CrossFit athletes that you've, uh, sort of worked with and, and, and interact with on, on your Instagram, uh, So, um, I have heard your CrossFit start story, but I would like to hear it again from you, um, because you are one of the few surgeons I know who actually, uh, is not only a CrossFit believer, you know, but someone who has been an advocate and a proponent and authority for many years.

[00:13:26] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, um, that's a, yeah, thank you for that introduction. Um, I, it started back in 2007. My wife made me do it, basically, is what it comes down to. I, I was talking to her about how I'm sick of sitting on a bike, stationary biking and doing barbell biceps curls. I'm like, there's got to be something better. And she's like, well, try to, why don't you come to the club and this, this girl, Heather Bergeron, and she's giving, you know, a bootcamp.

Class and I'll buy you some gift certificates. And so she got me some gift certificates to that. Heather met Ben, Ben and Heather. We started traveling around Natick Mass and Dover Mass and going to different places and having that we would transport barbells and transport weights to elementary schools, out into the park, anywhere.

And then he said, I want to have a gym and I want to have lifetime members. Pay for the gym and they'll be, they'll become lifetime members. And, you know, it was a small amount of money at the time and probably the best investment we ever made as far as amount of return on that money. Um, and so, yeah, we're lifetime members of CrossFit New England.

And, um, and yeah, I just, the thing I love about CrossFit and everybody has their own little thing, but the thing I love is like, it's a different thing every day. Like you don't, you're not doing the same thing every day. Like you're just, it's not over. Boring. You're not bored. Like if I sit on a bike for 45 minutes, I get bored.

If I run, I don't, I don't enjoy running long distances, you know, but if I do a different workout every day, I love that.

[00:15:01] Dr. Sam Rhee: What got you into orthopedic surgery? Was there like a specific experience or, or person, a mentor during medical school where you're like, this is, this is what I want to do.

[00:15:12] Dr. Sean Rockett: Um, yeah, there's the mentor who I would identify with as a guy named John Richmond. Um, great guy. He, uh, the local guy went to Tufts and became very well known in the sports medicine world. Uh, he is one of the inventors of, I don't know if you've ever heard of the suture anchor. He, uh, was fishing and he was talking to the PhD and he was thinking like a fish hook got stuck.

And he's like, wow, that's pretty stuck. And it's got a line attached to it. And like, it was like, Oh, what if you could sew that suture down to something? And so my tech invented the first suture anchor. And he was, and I actually was in the OR when he deployed the first suture anchor. I don't know if you've ever heard of suture anchors.

[00:15:59] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yes, I've used them. Um, I know the hand guys use them a lot. Unfortunately, the only time I've ever used them as a cosmetic surgery guy is for endoscopic coronal brow lifts, where you are elevating the soft tissue and you're, you're putting these

[00:16:12] Dr. Sean Rockett: You need to track it

[00:16:13] Dr. Sam Rhee: my techs, uh, in, into the, uh, into the skull, but, uh, not quite the same use, utility, or, um, probably

[00:16:22] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah. Yeah. A little different.

[00:16:24] Dr. Sam Rhee: that you have when you're, when you're, you guys are using them at this point.

[00:16:28] Dr. Sean Rockett: Well, yeah, that was like 1990. Yeah. That was 1990.

[00:16:32] Dr. Sam Rhee: that's pretty cool.

[00:16:34] Dr. Sean Rockett: he, and he, he took me under his wing. We did ACL research and, uh, and just, he's also just the nicest guy in the world and, uh, and I just would, you know, I love being around him and he, he's sort of, um, you know, I looked up to him, obviously,

[00:16:49] Dr. Sam Rhee: And at this point, you've done obviously thousands and thousands and thousands of surgeries, but I, as, as for most of. Yeah, last week, even last week, right, and then tomorrow will be a couple thousand more, but um, but as surgeons, the best surgeons I know are always trying to get better. They're trying to improve their technique.

They're trying to work on, even if they know an operation perfect, they're looking to improve it on some level. And what do you do? What is your mindset? How do you work to become better as a surgeon? Now versus like, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago.

[00:17:28] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, um, always thinking like, like, am I wasting time? Is there a better instrument? Is there a better angle or better approach? You know, so my hands don't get tired if I'm reaching around, you know. Um, you know, is there something my assistants can do better to help me? Like, how can, how can I have them, you know, move the arm or move the shoulder?

Um, You know, always, always thinking about different things. I've always got ideas about, you know, uh, how can we improve the efficiency or closure of a wound and things like that. I've talked to some companies and come up with some ideas. Um, but yeah, always just sort of, you know, for the patient, like doing things more efficiently so they don't have to be under anesthesia as much.

Um, you ever hear of Six Sigma?

[00:18:19] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah. The, uh, quality improvement

[00:18:22] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, so, so one of the hospitals I work at had people come in and observe and they found that I was the fastest, once I was in, once into the room to, to skin and out of the room and in the system and this, and it's, you know, it was the MGB system, the Mass General Brigham System.

And I'm a private practice guy and I'm in a community hospital and I said, what, you know, What's different? They like, you pre position the patient. You don't wait for the patient to go to sleep. You put them where you need to go and I'll be prepping while they're putting the patient to sleep at the same time.

You know, so it's, I just think, you know, and part of it's probably my little ADHD, but you know, like I just, I don't want to wait for anesthesia and then they put the tube in and they tape it and then I got to move the patient and you know, so also I'm thinking about the nurses, like we have to move a heavy patient.

I'm going to sit, I'm going to ask that person to go into the right position, be, you know, get prepped and draped in the position while they're putting them to sleep. So little things like that. Yeah.

[00:19:29] Dr. Sam Rhee: but I always find that the people in private practice tend to be. Because time is money, uh, a little, like, it's a stereotype, but they tend to be more efficient, I, I would say, it's just funny, I was talking to, uh, someone who was in my office and, and she works in the hospital and she said, we're trying to get to the goal of turnover by 37 minutes between cases, and I said, first of all, if as a private practice guy, that's insanely long, but at the old hospitals that I used to work at in, uh, in academics, that was pretty fast, so it's like, you know, It's like in, you know, so it was, I had sort of a mixed reaction to that.

Um, now, how do you work within a system though? Because you are, like you said, one surgeon and you're working within a pretty Big system. So there's only so much you can sort of affect or, or control when, when you're in the OR,

[00:20:20] Dr. Sean Rockett: I, I think when anybody comes in the room, they know that, you know, I'll ask the anesthesia politely. Could we please put them in, you know, cause they like to have, so I found the simplest compromise was let's take the head of the bed off. So you're standing, you know, because they don't want to slide the patient down.

They're like, oh, I can't intubate if the patient's waiting. I'm like, well, how about we take the head of the bed off? We'll put the patient in the right position. You're standing right where you need to be. And no one else does that that I know of, which is, you know, just, but, and then the other thing is too, we, we also built a surgery center too.

So having a surgery center and having control and having the nurses call me in between, you know, cases and say, Dr. Raga, we're ready for you while I'm. You know, seeing the next patient, talking to the family from the last patient, getting ready for the next patient. And they say, you know, we're all set to go.

It's like, I'll never complain, right? I'll never complain that they say we're ready for you. Like, but it's like the pace is, the pace is impressive. It's, it's really impressive. Like probably some 12 minutes sometimes,

[00:21:24] Dr. Sam Rhee: that's really impressive. Yes.

[00:21:26] Dr. Sean Rockett: like a quick minute. Yeah.

[00:21:28] Dr. Sam Rhee: yeah. That's about as fast as I've seen it. I think I would say 12 minutes. That's pretty impressive. So at this point you do shoulder, knees, right? Shoulders and knees.

[00:21:36] Dr. Sean Rockett: I do shoulders, knees, sports, and I do knee and hip replacements. Yeah.

[00:21:41] Dr. Sam Rhee: so out of those, is there one that you really love doing? One? Is that like your favorite type of procedure to do?

[00:21:48] Dr. Sean Rockett: I love cuffs. I love doing rotator cuffs. Those are cool. Um Yeah, just because every cuff is different. The tissues are different. The quality, the angle, like you have to figure out what, where the best placement is. You've got to figure out, not every tear pattern is the same. Um, and then, you know, labrums and ACLs.

I also love doing those like Bankarts and ACLs. Those are bread and butter stuff that I enjoy.

[00:22:13] Dr. Sam Rhee: What do you see is the most common in CrossFitters? I, my guess would be shoulders, but what do you see as

[00:22:21] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah. Yeah. The data, the data that's out there is shoulders are, you know, probably 20 percent of the injuries back. It's probably, you know, up there as well, 20%. And it's mostly, you know, if it gets to surgery, like not a lot get to surgery, but if it gets to surgery, it's usually, um, uh, long head of the biceps issues, like biceps tears or slap tears.

[00:22:44] Dr. Sam Rhee: Right, the laboral tears. So do you feel like there is consensus when you see a patient and they've seen three providers? Are they often getting three different answers to their injury? Or is there universally Like, is there more consensus now than there used to be in terms of managing these things?

[00:23:05] Dr. Sean Rockett: I like to be, um, I like to be a detective, you know, uh, I think a lot of people just read the MRI reports and say, oh, you've got bursitis, you've got impingement. But like, I like to, you know, talk to the patient, find out exactly what they're talking about. Um, and, and, you know, not just go by the six MRI diagnoses that are listed, like, you know, try to figure out which is what's relevant and, you know, listen to the patient.

Number one, like, like you might have a partial cuff tear, but all your pain is here. Like, I'm not going to, Do anything to your cuff if all your pain is here and it's not, you know, typically, typically, classically, if it's a little small rotator cuff, I'm not going to reattach your small rotator cuff if it's, you know, mostly bicep.

So, and that's why I'll, you know, definitely when I see the patient and when I book the surgery, that's really important. When I write in my, Booking, like this is what I plan on doing. And then also I like seeing them before they block because things change, right? People, people's symptoms change before they put the block in.

So examining them again, three months later or two months later and seeing if anything's changed. And then also it refreshes in my brain. Like, do I agree with what I just booked, you know, two months ago? Um, cause if you go up to somebody and they're blocked and you have to operate on them, you know, you might not remember exactly all the same details, you know?

[00:24:33] Dr. Sam Rhee: Do you treat CrossFitters differently? Because honestly, they're pretty aggressive and when they come in, they're not necessarily like, I mean, a hardcore guy, like, you know, they're like, I want to be able to overhead squat. I want to be able to do the Olympic movements. Most other non CrossFit athletes might be like, listen, if I can swing a golf club, uh, if I could do a little paddle.

Like, if I could, like, cook, I'm good. And so, what, does that change or alter your approach in terms of management of injury?

[00:25:05] Dr. Sean Rockett: Cause I would say a lot of them are very high functioning. So a little ache and pain. I don't want to treat surgically. Like if it's a little niggle of, you know, something and they're, I'm like, what, what can't you do? And they're like, oh, I can do everything. And I'm like, well, does it affect such and such?

Does it affect your sleep? You're lifting up, reaching up into cabinets. Does it, and they're like, no, I just, you know, I find, you know, whatever on the 30th pull up, it starts to ache a little bit. I'm like, wait, how about 25 pull ups? Like, Um, so, so number one, I will, I almost bias against them, like, like you have to prove that this is really a disability for you, like mentally or physically, like you have to make, you have to tell me, number one, that you're going to try conservative management and you're going to modify, because a lot of the stuff, you could have a partial tear of your biceps, but you're You have a bad tendonitis and if you give them two or three months of modification, that's going to go away.

Like, and they might return to normal. And I've had plenty of people who have booked surgery that ready to go, they're all set and they, in their minds that they modified after I booked surgery and they'd come back and they're like, I'm all better. And I'm like, great. Like we're not doing it. We're not going in.

But also CrossFitters are incredibly fit. Mostly, for the most part, and they actually do heal faster than human beings. Like, like I always say, like, you're not going to heal faster than a normal human being, but I have found, typically, if somebody is fit, they're going to heal faster than other people.

[00:26:40] Dr. Sam Rhee: would you rather see patients, and I know I've seen your videos, and so much of what is early is our early stages of tendonitis or other types of inflammation. And like you said, a lot of it is, is fairly conservative, uh, in terms of management. Um, would you rather not see hordes of early patients with Non surgical issues or is it sort of like educational as well?

Because like, you know, you're, you're, let's face it, you're an orthopedic surgeon. You're, your prescription, what you say to them probably carries more weight than maybe another provider because you're, you know, you, you know, you're Sean Rockett and you're an orthopedic surgeon. So, but, but then you're probably seeing tons of people that might not necessarily need you right then or right there.

[00:27:29] Dr. Sean Rockett: the trigger is, you know, uh, rip, tear, pop, dislocation, bruising, deformity, come see me. If it's a week of soreness and you didn't have an injury and you know you did more pull ups or push ups than normal, like, Don't come see me for that. Like give it, give it a week, at least, you know, give it a week or two of modify.

You know, if you've had it for six weeks and you have modified, I think that's reasonable to get checked out. Yeah. But if it's a day, a day or two of soreness and you, you know, you know, give it, cause I'm not going to do anything to you. I'm not going to order an MRI. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, you know, if it's a day or two of soreness and you overdid it.

That's, I'm going to treat you conservatively.

[00:28:10] Dr. Sam Rhee: You know, you just you taught we just talked beforehand how you have an Instagram reel that's blowing up because um, you're outline, you're you're mentioning how the injury risk for CrossFit is less than running. And, and I've heard you speak about it before. If you take a thousand training hours. Research has shown that, uh, some studies have shown that running is about 12 hours. Every running inj er, running runs the risk of about 12 hours lost of a thousand training hours. Right?

[00:28:42] Dr. Sean Rockett: The rate of, the rate per thousand hours is 12. The rate of injury per thousand hours is 12. The rate of injury for CrossFit is, is anywhere from 0. 27 to three.

[00:28:54] Dr. Sam Rhee: okay. Now, in my mind, when I think about CrossFit athletes, I think the biggest problem is ego. Like, always. It's for the new athlete coming in, and it's also for the Athlete that has been cross fitting for a long time, either when, and you've mentioned this in your lecture. Uh, I, there's a really good one and I, I want to link to it later, but it's like sort of an intro orthopedic intro to CrossFit too much, too soon, too fast.

And you mentioned that in your, in your lecture and, and for a lot of new CrossFit athletes who are starting, they just go way too hard, way too much. And it turns off a lot of people, how as an orthopedic surgeon, can you sort of. Get people to dial that down as well as experienced athletes who you tell them to scale and they don't want to scale they don't Want to they don't want to scale Like what, like, how can you help convince them to do these things properly?

[00:29:51] Dr. Sean Rockett: Um, I think you take the big picture and you say, what is your overall goal? Like your goal shouldn't be to be as fit as possible in six months. Your goal should be as fit as possible in your lifetime. And if you are now out of the game, because you have to wait three months for a really bad tendonitis to go away, your fitness is gonna.

Plummet for three months. You're not exercising. You're not doing the same intensity. So listening to your body, you know, and just not pushing through pain. Like it's a simple, it's grandmother's prescription, but it's a simple game. Like just your goal should be like, you feel something bad, not saying like, Oh, I got to keep, I'm going to make that, I'm going to make that feel better.

Like, no, your body's not going to let you do that. And, and just, yeah, just modifying is key.

[00:30:45] Dr. Sam Rhee: Now I've even heard the OG people at CrossFit, like Adrian Bosman, Pat Sherwood, these guys have CrossFit related injuries from overuse or, or doing a lot of volume over the years. Um, have you ever had anything like that where any, any kind of

[00:31:01] Dr. Sean Rockett: Oh yeah,

[00:31:02] Dr. Sam Rhee: related?

[00:31:03] Dr. Sean Rockett: yeah.

[00:31:03] Dr. Sam Rhee: what, and then how did you manage it?

What happened and how did you manage

[00:31:06] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, early on I remember we were doing, um, early on we were doing like a lot of pull up, big pull up workout. And, uh, and I, you know, by the end I like, I literally couldn't straighten out my elbow. Like it was really tight, sore. Two days later I was like checking for fluid in my biceps, you know, seeing if I had rhabdo.

And so yeah, like you get sucked into it. I know it. I know people get sucked into it. They're trying to fight for the pull ups or the number of pull ups. They're trying to beat the person next to them, trying to beat the 20 year olds. You know, 50, 40, 50, 60 year olds are not going to beat 20 year olds. Like everybody just like, just, just let's accept that.

Like that's your starting point. You're not going to beat that 20 year old and don't try to do it because they're going to beat you in the long run. It's, you know. So that's number one. Uh, uh, I, I tweaked my back like probably 15 years ago doing a clean and jerk. Probably it was up around my heavy, heavier area and I hyper extended.

Um, and, and I tweaked it and I was in spasm and got over that. But as far as like, you know, rip tear pops, I haven't had that.

[00:32:15] Dr. Sam Rhee: I've, I've heard about, I've heard Ben Bergeron speak about movements he doesn't do anymore, like things that, um, he regards as sort of more higher risk for maybe everyday CrossFit athletes. How have you managed your volume, your, you, yourself as a CrossFit athlete now? How many days a week do you work out?

What kind of workouts do you do? Is there anything that you avoid doing?

[00:32:38] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, I would say, um, like, I feel, it's funny because I feel bad if I work out once a week. Like just because of schedule, you know, schedule, timing, fatigue, need to rest, need to sleep, meetings, getting home late, dinner late, hungry, can't work out. And so if I work out like once a week, I notice a difference.

Like I feel like, I just feel blah, blah, blah. Ideally I would say four to five times a week. I, I, I like, uh, and two days of rest. Um, But sometimes it's three, three to five days a week of, of, you know, high intensity. And, and again, it doesn't, part of CrossFit is not being intense every day. Like you don't have to win the games every day.

Like if you're feeling not great, you know, 75 percent is okay, but at least you're moving, you're stretching, you're getting blood flow. You know, and you might not be hitting your PRs every day, which is fine. But, um, you know, and if you're feeling sore, you modify. Um, but yeah, I would say that's, I feel good if I'm, you know, three to four to five times a week.

Um, what was your other question?

[00:33:47] Dr. Sam Rhee: Oh, and is there any movements or anything you

[00:33:49] Dr. Sean Rockett: Oh yeah, yeah. Rebounding box jumps. I've gotten, I've gotten away from those as I've seen people coming in with rebounding box jumps. Yeah, definitely. I also don't like to go upside down as much anymore. I don't, I don't like coming down on the head.

[00:34:07] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah, I agree with that too. Um, so what do you listen to in the OR? You have your surgery center, you're in the other hospital. What, what kind of music do you prefer or like to hear with

[00:34:18] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, I got my Pandora, um, I got, uh, Apple Music. I'll, uh, I'll pull up, I'll, I've, I've created stations with, you know, I'm an, I'm an 80s guy. I'm a, a child of 1985, you know, high school 85. So it's, you know, it's Springsteen, Talking Heads, R. E. M., Stations off that, The Killers, um, you know, Bon Jovi, sort of mid 80s.

Stuff. Breakfast club, all that kind of

[00:34:48] Dr. Sam Rhee: Wow. Gen X, you're Gen X all the way there.

[00:34:51] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but I do realize, you know, a lot, too much of one thing. So then I'll go to nineties, two thousands hits and present day hits to keep the nurses happy. I'll listen, I'll listen to more modern stuff. Not as much into country. We had, we had a patient, uh, I usually will ask the patient when they're going to sleep, I go, what do you want to listen to while you go to sleep?

And they're like, whatever you want to listen to. Whatever makes you happy is what I want to listen to. And I had one guy, he goes, Oh, I want country. Everybody like looks at me and I'm like, yeah, sure. I'll pull that up. Pull up the country. And then he went to sleep and we switched it. No, but I like country. I like, I like country and rock. I just don't like the, the sort of the. The drawl and the, oh, the, the slow country. I don't like the slow, I like, I like the peppy country. The rock country is good.

[00:35:49] Dr. Sam Rhee: it. Well, listen, hey, you're the one doing, you know, you're the one with a knife in your hand.

[00:35:54] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah. You want to keep me happy. You want to keep me happy. Hmm.

[00:35:58] Dr. Sam Rhee: so as part of your team, either in or out of the OR as a surgeon, who is particularly important to you in terms of your success and what you do on a daily basis?

[00:36:09] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, on a daily basis, like in and out of the OR, my, my major clinical managers, uh, my office manager and my clinical manager,

[00:36:19] Dr. Sam Rhee: Mm hmm.

[00:36:20] Dr. Sean Rockett: they are, they are like the hardest working people I know. Like they work harder than any person in our office. They're there late, they're there early. They, uh, some weekends I'll say, Hey, I need to see this person Monday morning.

You know, could you, they'll call them, they'll set up, you know, they are, they're amazing. Um, so, Denise and Alice, I would say, uh, shout out to them.

[00:36:44] Dr. Sam Rhee: That's huge and you keep a really heavy surgical volume. I imagine it's you, you, you're on call this weekend. You're, uh, you're, uh, so you have a surgery center. So obviously you have to keep up your surgical volume there. If you're, if that's part of your practice, um, What, uh, do you like being as busy as possible?

Like I have surgeons that that's all they do. They want to be as busy. And do you plan on increasing your volume? Have you stayed the same or have you been decreasing it? What's, what's been your.

[00:37:14] Dr. Sean Rockett: Where am I on my trajectory? Uh, this, this year, uh, so I think I've, you know, I'm 56. I feel like this is like peak, peak, peak. I'm not 30, and I'm not, you know, 90, and I think patients are very comfortable coming to me at this level. Like, there's no question, like, I've done a lot, as opposed to, you know, the 30 year old question, how many of these have you done?

And still, they can tell I'm, you know, keeping up my fitness and acumen and skills. So I think, you know, just from that point of view, I think, like, I'm, you know, In my peak period as far as booking cases and second opinions and my name is out there for second opinions. People who have been slated for surgery want a second opinion.

Um, the, uh, what was I going to say? Oh, and my memory's going now.

[00:38:06] Dr. Sam Rhee: So,

[00:38:10] Dr. Sean Rockett: this summer was, um, my reunion, college reunion, and my son's graduation. And I took almost, you know, Three or four days, two weeks in a row off. And it was, you know, and I also, I'll take, I take weeks of vacation throughout the year, but these were special days and special moments. And, uh, my office staff is like, when are you coming back?

When are you coming back? Stop talking to me. Like, I don't know. I don't even want to know. Just let me enjoy. I don't even want to know. Don't page me. Don't text me. You know, so, um, I, I'm, you know, I'm getting more golf in a little bit, you know, tournaments. I go to tournaments and we'll do, you know, we did our, our local police tournament, golf tournament, and we have a fire tournament.

I'll, I'll do that. But, um, Yeah, I realize I'm not, I don't want to be, I don't want to burn out. I don't want to go till the, till the oil's done. I want you know, I want a nice, a nice landing. Um, and so yeah, I've started to be, you know, it's true. You've got, you've got to be selfish and live, live with it.

Never been selfish, right? Our careers have been like helping others. And so now, you know, like I'm thinking about being a little more, sort of just keeping my blood pressure down, keep my heart rate, you know, normalized, decreasing stress, and

[00:39:29] Dr. Sam Rhee: right. The ability to say no is very important. And I, as you. And like you said, you are at your peak. I think right now in your 50s is, as a surgeon, the peak. You have the most, like, the most experience you've accumulated so far. But like you said, physically, you haven't gotten, like, a 65 year old is very different from a 55 year old, I think.

I mean, who knows? Maybe in 10 years you'll look as physically fit as you do now, but, like, traditionally. And so, it's You know, so you have to balance that with whether you want to be, like, I'm sure if you wanted to operate every day, all day, 365, you could certainly book your OR schedule that way. Like you said, the question is what are your priorities, what you want to do.

But you've always made time for the games. So, That's a, that's a pretty big time commitment overall. And you used to also cover other CrossFit events as well in the past. So what made you say, you know what, no matter how busy I am, I'm going to, you know, be part of this organization and manage, manage this.

[00:40:36] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, I just considered this, like, and it's funny, like, early on back in the old days, you know, we call it the old days, um, It was just, there was such a, an energy about it, people were so positive, like, the CrossFit Games team was, it was just, it was like going to day camp. It was like, there's just great energy.

And, uh, and, you know, as it's grown, it's, You still have that energy, but it's gotten big and massive. And, uh, I just like it because I like, I like the sport. I like the athletes. They're, they're very appreciative. I enjoy being there, you know, as if something bad happens, you know, I can take care of it. Um, you know, so it makes me feel good professionally and then it makes me feel good.

I'm more surrounded by some friends and some colleagues out there who are fun and we have a good time. Um, yeah, it's just, it's, it's part, it's my. hobby, you know, side interest. People like, people ask me, they're like, are you, like, do you see all CrossFitter? Like, is your office filled with CrossFitters? I'm like, no, that'd be impossible.

Like, so, um, yeah, that's, it's, you know, it's just, it's a great side hobby and interest and I enjoy it.

[00:41:43] Dr. Sam Rhee: Now, these are obviously extremely elite athletes. Um, let me ask you first, what, uh, do you feel that a professional CrossFit athlete is, uh, is that harder training versus say other professional sports or not? Cause I kind of feel like it is, but I haven't talked to a pro football player or basketball player about it.

[00:42:07] Dr. Sean Rockett: yeah, I mean, it depends on the person, obviously. I think there are some, you know, you look at the work ethic of, you know, Kobe Bryant and what he was doing, um, you know, just complete dedication to his body and, and fitness. And I think the CrossFitters have mostly that same attitude. It's a different type of training.

Um, I think it is literally, you are the fittest person on earth if you, if you win. I, I can't imagine anything else comparing to that. Um, yeah. Just from an, you know, and that's it. It's, it's all roundedness, well roundedness. Um, I, I honestly, I truly believe that. Um, but yeah, other, other athletes, they're, you know, they're maybe working a little more on the weights and less on the aerobics or the duration.

I think, I think more athletics and more cross training has come about over the years. They've realized you can't just run all day. Like as we saw from the injury rates of running, just running, you know.

[00:43:03] Dr. Sam Rhee: And when you're at the games, and I feel like this is kind of true for most of them, they've trained at such a high level. By the time they get there, they're just kind of holding it together. They have a lot of knicks, they're banged up. They, you know, they are. Peaking or trying to peak, but that that's not so easy.

And, and we've heard athletes talk about like, you know, just trying to hold it together at the time. And they also are going through very grueling events for multiple days. We've seen like Pat Villner fall down from that ginormous netting and rig. So there. Right. So you're really busy. I would assume seeing a lot of these athletes.

What is that like interacting with them? Because they've, they've never worked with you all year. And now suddenly they're at the most important event of their career that year, they have something and you're telling them stuff as a, as a physician. And they're like, do I listen to this guy? Do I not like, how does that interaction go?

[00:43:58] Dr. Sean Rockett: So it's funny. Um, I think just having been there a long time and knowing the coaches. So the coaches have been there a long time too. The coaches are repeat players, the athletes, not as much, right. The athletes come and go, but the coaches, you know, that I've seen over the years, they have developed a trust and I've, I've gained their trust.

And, you know, early on, I think the biggest thing is I'm there to make sure they can compete. and want them to compete without hurting themselves or without doing damage to their future career, their next year's games. Like I would want them to be at the next year's games. Um, and so I think gaining trust, telling the athletes you're on their side, you want them to compete.

And then, you know, sort of, if it comes to an injury, um, people, people will say like, well, did you just pull them? And it's like, no, I'm not going to just pull somebody. I'm going to let it sink in. It's going to sink in. I can't, you can't like just say, Oh, you're done. And like, no, like if I tell somebody you're done, they're not going to listen to me.

Right. So typically, and it's a good question because people always ask, like, how do you decide or how do you decide with the athlete, which is ideally you want a joint consensus with the athlete, the coach and the doctor. Um, how do you decide when to stop? And so the first one is, you know, Say it's a sprain or a, you know, a muscle pull, um, saying like, okay, what's the next event?

Like if the next event is, you know, max pull ups and you have a leg issue. Yeah, sure. You can compete. Um, so that's number one, finding out what the next event is. So like not, not canceling them right away. And they liked that they liked, Oh, I can do this. Right. And so then, uh, seeing how it feels the next day.

So I actually have. The next morning I'll, I'll see, it's like my pre op clinic. Like I'll have a clinic where I'll see the athletes from the day before and see how they're doing. And then I'll, I'll actually, if it's questionable, I say, I want to be there when you warm up. I want to watch you warm up. And then it becomes self evident.

Either they can't do it and I'll, they'll prove to them, they'll try to do it. And they might prove to themselves they can't, whatever, if it's a weight and it's an arm issue. They'll say like, let's not have something bad happen on the floor. We don't want something bad on the floor to happen. Let's see that you can do this right now, confidently and well.

And if they're struggling, then we have the tough talk.

[00:46:39] Dr. Sam Rhee: What, uh, obviously Brooke Wells type injuries are very rare, but what are the most common type of things that. Athletes are battling at the games in terms of injuries or fighting.

[00:46:52] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah. I, you know, so number one, you talk about the way they come in. Like I always tell people, if somebody asked me an opinion, some people will reach out to me and they'll ask me opinions and they'll say like, um, You know, what's to optimize my chance, like to get to the games or to be in the games. If I'm, if they've been selected for the games, like what do you think the best is?

And I think the best is doing less. Coming in fit, rested and healthy versus, as you said, banged up, damaged and tired. Like you're coming in that way, you're not going to do well in the games. Like, so that taper that they do, and hopefully most of them do a taper. is very important in my, in my book. I see a lot of people and masters included who come in with some kind of injury and, uh, you know, from overtraining and, uh, and because they say, Oh, I'm going to the games.

I gotta, I gotta go, go, go. I gotta keep going. And so that's, that's number one. Yeah. Um, The other is, you know, yeah, so a lot, a lot of it is tendonitis. People just have soreness, muscle soreness, muscle aches, uh, the games itself, the elites, it's pretty rare for an elite athlete to get hurt. Um, if you look at all the, the, uh, you know, injuries, not all the injuries, but all the things that we see, it's usually not the elite athletes.

[00:48:15] Dr. Sam Rhee: You're, you come, okay, so you're not Boston Brahmin. You are, you are Irish Catholic, but you are, you are a Boston, Massachusetts family. And, um, you're both, your parents were both surgeons. Your, your father, Francis X. Rockett is, is a surgeon. was a neurosurgeon. Um, and your mother, Barbara Rockett, was the first female president of the Massachusetts Medical Society.

Um, she passed several years ago, um, I think 2001. She was one of the first female residents at Boston City Hospital in the 50s. She had a active surgical practice. She was also a physician for colleges, high schools, other, you know, the Boston FBI, I read in, and the local, um, Catholic sister organizations.

And, and she had five children. You're one of five. Um, and I remember seeing videos of her talking about, and she said, I try to be a good wife, a good mother, good physician. I had to be very flexible, how I control my life on a daily basis. Um, what do you remember growing up? Why you wanted to continue being a surgeon when you saw your parents and what they did?

And, and now basically it's what you're doing.

[00:49:26] Dr. Sean Rockett: Yeah, um, yeah, I think the gratitude that, um,

excuse me, yeah, you know, like, um, yeah, no, she, um, they were just, I don't, yeah, it was having, having people appreciate what you do. Um, uh, that they were, you know, they were grateful. Having, getting thanked, you know, getting thanked for what you do, that's, that's just a great feeling, right? Um, and, you know, people would always call, you know, and, and people would come by, Mom and Dad would say, come by and we'll take a look.

And, um. So just, you know, it was, it was comical at the dinner table. You know, it was like, Oh, who's coming, who's coming by tonight. And I remember one time she was examining, uh, like a, a nun, a nun who came by and she was examining in a room and I had a Superman cape on and I burst in the door as Superman, I'm like, Oh my God.

I just, I remember that. Um, but yeah, no, it's, I think they just, They were, they're just good people. They're just great people and, uh, and people appreciated them. And, uh, some of the stories with dad, you know, dad, you know, a 16 year old woke up and he couldn't see, he had a dandy walker cyst pushing on his optic nerve and dad, you know, let the kids see that, you know, after the surgery, like that's pretty, that's pretty cool.

So we talk about that at dinner, you know, hearing that. And, and so, you know, that did have an effect. Yeah.

[00:50:59] Dr. Sam Rhee: At this point what are your future goals as a surgeon? You are in your prime. You have and years, decades to go. What is it that you look forward to doing, seeing, experiencing, becoming at this point?

[00:51:18] Dr. Sean Rockett: Um, Being happy, you know, there's a lot of, uh, stress and with the medicine today and being in private practice and the other pressures that are out there from other systems and, uh, just sort of being happy where I am and, uh, you know, having a good group and having a group that's respected and, you know, people say that's the place to go or, you know, everybody there is good and you don't have to worry, um, you know, just, Knowing that we're doing the right thing for people, not, I hear stories about aggressive surgery and it just kind of really is annoying.

And, uh, um, you know, just know that we're doing the right thing, taking care of patients. And a lot of the, you know, my phone is on the weekend is, you know, again, blowing up with, you know, requests, you know, texts, like, Hey, can I see you? And I'll forward the, for the message. I think people, you know, just They know and trust that we're doing the, doing the right thing for them.

And we're conservative and we know when to pull the trigger when we have to and do surgery when we need to. And, you know, just doing the right thing. I guess that was a, that was a Ben was a Ben Daley was a thoracic surgeon, old thoracic, not old thoracic, but he was, uh, he retired in my internship and we had a going away dinner and he had this great comment, just said, you know, and everybody hears it, but.

Do the right thing, you know, just do the right thing. Like you won't go wrong if you do the right thing. And, you know, just if you're stressed and you're thinking about getting out of the OR and you have to go home and you've got to do something like just stop, take a breath and just say, I'm going to do the right thing here and, you know, take care of the patient and that's, you know, the most important,

[00:53:02] Dr. Sam Rhee: I think, uh, And I hear it from a lot of my colleagues that the pressures are not decreasing, they're increasing in a negative way about that. And most of it's financial or, or like you said, sometimes time and, and to find those physicians that, uh, I don't want to say everyone has to be a saint or be principled, but you got to do the right thing for your patient always.

And I think you're right that if you keep that in mind, pretty much everything else sorts itself out.

[00:53:28] Dr. Sean Rockett: and that gets spread out, right? The nurses see it, the nurses see it, the anesthesia sees it, and that word will get out that you're, you know. A reasonable person and, you know, like the people that you hear about people, they, I gotta, I gotta do a hundred knee surgeries this month or, you know, like, you know, just having quotas, like there shouldn't be quotas on surgery, right?

[00:53:50] Dr. Sam Rhee: I agree. So if If there's someone young and they're listening to this or they know you and they're, or they've heard about you and they're like, I want Rockettt someday. This is, this is my goal. And either they're, they could be as young as in high school or college, maybe they're in med school, maybe they're a resident, maybe they're a young attending.

What is the kind of advice you would give them to say, listen, this is, this is what I would tell you to do at this point, knowing what I know.

[00:54:16] Dr. Sean Rockett: Um, yeah, number one, uh, number one was, uh, my brother told it to me. My brother's a general surgeon. And he told me, uh, in internship, which was great, uh, you know, cause you're tired and you're holding retractors and you're just sitting there and you're like, you know, he goes, pretend like you are actually doing the surgery.

Like, It's a simple, stupid phrase, but like, it really helps. Cause early on I was like, okay, where's the x ray going to come from? And where, how am I going to position? And where are the nurses going to stand? And where am I going to stand? And, and it really helped me. Like it kept me. Sort of awake and alert, like, you know, while I was tired, but, um, you know, pretend like you are actually doing the surgery, like the exposure, like what retractor am I going to put that way?

Where's the other, where's the assistant going to pull? You know, where's the arm going to go? Where's the leg going to go? So little details like that. The other I would say is obviously, you know, stay humble. Any attending likes a humble resident as opposed to a cocky resident. Um, I would say, um, you know, we like confidence, right, but, um, you know, not being, not thinking you're, where you, it, we, attendings can, you know, attendings can see where you are, your confidence level, without you telling them, or showing them, or feeling like you have to prove something, like, just, you know, do your reading, be polite, be humble, do the, you know, do the right thing, don't call me a, Yeah,

[00:55:56] Dr. Sam Rhee: is horrible in anyone for any reason. And, um, and I have heard the advice that your brother gave you in, in different forms, but all very similar. Imagine, for example, The job that you want, basically. So if, if like, and I've told this to even people who want to be CrossFit coaches, I'm like, listen, act like the person that you want to be.

Or, I mean, you can't as a medical student or as a, as an intern, like you can't actually do those things, but you are imagining yourself and you are anticipating those things. And, and that make, made you a better intern. That, that's what I, that was the, um, that was the, uh, advice I got as a junior resident too, was.

You know, imagine that you're the two, you're the three, like, what is it that you need to do as the one to help your three, and if you were the three, and if you, if you can, um, anticipate that, you, you become a much more useful, uh, person, so, uh, you're not always going to be the junior, you are going to be the senior someday, and if you can, you Anticipate and know that I think that that is a huge piece of advice.

Um, is your brother older or younger?

[00:57:04] Dr. Sean Rockett: Older.

[00:57:05] Dr. Sam Rhee: Older. Yes. There you go. So, uh, my last question really from a CrossFit perspective is so, and I talked to Don Fall about this because, you know, he has this big, you know, And we are both big CrossFit believers as physicians. Um, he wants to grow to 30 million by X amount of years and all that.

Um, and, and we were at the CrossFit Health Summit and we, we heard them talk about it. Uh, but I asked Don, is, is your family doing CrossFit? And he's like, no. So he actually, but actually he did say he tried to get his parents to do it and they went to a box and they got the crap beat out of him. It was like a really horrible workout.

It was like, it was really tough on them. And they were like, uh, okay, thank you. But no, thank you. I, it was very interesting. I appreciate it.

[00:57:53] Dr. Sean Rockett: that's too bad.

[00:57:54] Dr. Sam Rhee: And so he said, I'm going to keep working on it. I'm going to keep trying. And, and I thought to myself, you know what, I haven't been able to get my parents, my brothers, like, I, if I can't get people into CrossFit that are the closest to me, then I, we have a problem.

We have either a perception problem or an understanding problem. Is that the same with you and your family? Do you understand that? Like, how have you worked that issue?

[00:58:20] Dr. Sean Rockett: Um, I, I, I've never, I've never like, Pushed CrossFit on my brothers or sisters, uh, or sisters. My kids did it just cause that's where we went on the weekends to work out and they would come with us and they grew up CrossFitting and they're all great CrossFit athletes. Um, but yeah, I've never with my brothers and sisters, like one brother came by and we have a gym here and he came by the gym and he was doing some workouts and then he moved away.

But, um, but yeah, I've never. I've just sort of let them do what they want to do. And, and they, you know, they've seen the, the rise of CrossFit and I talked to them, you know, I try not to talk too much about it. Right. But, um, but yeah, they, they get it and they, you know, they're, they're all exercisers and they do their own thing.

And, you know, I,

[00:59:10] Dr. Sam Rhee: Well, then how about other physicians? I mean, I think we should be the ones at the tip of the spear and I think they're trying to make more efforts, um, CrossFit HQ. Um, and you are certainly, listen, I'm not faulting you. You are putting more content out there than anybody else I know who has a medical degree by their name.

So I can't fault you at all. In fact, you should, you are the example, but. Is it not hard on a daily basis? Do people around you know you as the CrossFit surgeon, or this is the CrossFit guy, and all that sort of

[00:59:42] Dr. Sean Rockett: they, they've, they've, uh, they figured it out.

[00:59:45] Dr. Sam Rhee: And is that a good thing, a bad thing? Like, how do you feel

[00:59:49] Dr. Sean Rockett: I like it. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. That's my, I identify with it, right? I, I, I, that's my workout and I like taking care of the athletes who come to me and my sort of niche has been like CrossFit's okay. Like it's not dangerous. I've been doing it for 17 years.

Why would I do something that's going to hurt me for 17 years? Um, the, you know, the other thing I, what I can do more of in my sort of daily thing is diet. You know, I can talk to people about eating and, and, you know, people get turned off if I say, Oh, you need to CrossFit. Like, you know, I think, I think, uh, I'll say I'll use it as diet and exercise and I'll talk about high intensity and doing high intensity stuff.

And then they'll say, what do you do? I say, I do CrossFit. And so I'm not, I don't, I don't feel like I'm going to be like the, the marketer of CrossFit, but I'll talk about diet and exercise. And if somebody asks me, I'll tell them. And, you know, I'll talk about the movements and weightlifting and how weightlifting is a great cardiac workout.

And, you know, it's, um, but I'm not, I don't push it every day that, you know, you need to, to do CrossFit or, or else, you know, um, but, you know, it's, uh, I think certainly with some people who come who are, you know, overweight and we talk about diet and exercise, a lot of people are, it's an eyeopening to them, like that they, they go, well, I can't walk and I can't.

I can't bike because my knees hurt and so I just don't do anything. I'm like, well, what about your upper body? You know, you could do upper body stuff and stomach stuff and back stuff and, uh, swimming. And, and then we talk about, you know, low starch and low sugar. And, uh, and you know, some people are like, oh really?

And you know, they talk about diet soda and I didn't realize diet soda spiked insulin and, you know, stuff like that.

[01:01:40] Dr. Sam Rhee: well, you certainly are living, you're walking the walk, you're talking the talk, your social media is amazing on 321GoMD on

[01:01:48] Dr. Sean Rockett: Well, I got an eagle too.

[01:01:50] Dr. Sam Rhee: You got a what? Oh, no. When, when'd you get an e book?

[01:01:53] Dr. Sean Rockett: Uh, no, an e book, e

[01:01:54] Dr. Sam Rhee: E book. Oh, yes. You said you're coming out with an e book. When is that coming out? What, uh, what, uh, what's the anticipated publish date?

Okay.

[01:02:05] Dr. Sean Rockett: Before the games. Before the games.

[01:02:07] Dr. Sam Rhee: And the title will be,

[01:02:09] Dr. Sean Rockett: Uh, undecided, but it's gonna be, uh, where, where does it hurts? Probably.

[01:02:15] Dr. Sam Rhee: okay. Cause I will tell you you're. I went to your 321GoMD. com website and, for just a little constructive criticism, the, the website looks like something from a MySpace page back in the 1990s, so it's

[01:02:33] Dr. Sean Rockett: That's what I was going

[01:02:35] Dr. Sam Rhee: un like the use, like the design of it could use an up, like a refresh.

[01:02:40] Dr. Sean Rockett: The e book is going to be much, it's, the e book is the 321 GOMD 2. 0. The e

[01:02:47] Dr. Sam Rhee: but I will say the content was spot on, and I read through the knee, the shoulder, like, it was fantastic. I, I have, uh, friends and, uh, at my gym, and I'm, I'm going, I have told them, you gotta look at this. Like, people who have, like, a ton of issues. And I'm like, you have to look at this. You have, I said, you have to look at, um, that lecture you have on, um, orthopedic introduction to CrossFit, which was on YouTube.

I want to post a link to that. That was awesome. And, uh, your ebook, if it consolidates all of that, it's going to be a must read for, I think, most athletes and, and anyone

[01:03:23] Dr. Sean Rockett: to

[01:03:23] Dr. Sam Rhee: related.

[01:03:24] Dr. Sean Rockett: be a lot of video. It's going to be like a virtual experience. Like, you look up the biceps, you get arthroscopic pictures of the biceps, you get anatomy, and then you get patient experiences. Like, what was a biceps tear? What was it like? What was the recovery from surgery like? What are you doing now?

How many months after surgery are you? And stuff like that.

[01:03:46] Dr. Sam Rhee: It's going to be required reading, I think, because anyone who has, it really will, because anyone who has tendinitis all the way up to some major injury is, they're going to be able to get a lot from what you've said. Because you've had, like you said, since 2007, you've had the experience as an athlete, you've had the experience as a surgeon, um, and These are things that happen every day at our gym, every week, every month in terms of, um, athletes coming to me as a, as a coach or, you know, saying, Hey, listen, I have this.

What should I do with this? And if I could say, get this ebook and take a look at that. Um, I think that would, uh, probably help, um, everyone that gets referred to it. So I really appreciate that.

[01:04:26] Dr. Sean Rockett: Cool, thanks.

[01:04:27] Dr. Sam Rhee: can't wait for that to come out. Um, Dr. Rockett. It's so amazing to have met you. Thank you again. Um, and I

[01:04:34] Dr. Sean Rockett: was good to meet you. That was funny, like, you know, you just sitting next to you and, uh, that was funny.

[01:04:41] Dr. Sam Rhee: that was going to be my intro. Like you are the, you are the most humble dude. I will, I swear to God, I'm sitting there at the health summit. Um, and you know, cause I record a little intro before I do the podcast and I was going to talk about how I was just sitting next to you and we start talking and you tell me you're in, and, and the right flex move would have been.

I'm Sean Rockett. I'm the, you know, head physician, you know, head surgeon at the CrossFit Games. And that never came up. It, you didn't, you, like, we're talking for 20 minutes about your call, your, your practice, you know, your operating, and, and I was like, wait a second, what the hell? Like, this is crazy. So, um, so, yeah.

It just speaks to your, you know, your, your personality, like who you are, like how awesome you are. And, and I love that because, um, listen, I know a lot of ortho guys and all of them are like, I'm not going to say they, like, ego isn't usually not a shortage in that specialty. Like they're, they're, you know, they're all a lot of bros.

They're all like, whatever. So. To have met someone who does what you do, who as, as experienced as what, as you are, as, as talented, as what you, as who you are, um, to, you know, to have a conversation with some dude for 20 minutes and not even like, you know, pull out that flex card was like, it just sort of shows who you're

[01:06:00] Dr. Sean Rockett: Thanks a lot.

[01:06:00] Dr. Sam Rhee: you.

[01:06:01] Dr. Sean Rockett: I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

[01:06:03] Dr. Sam Rhee: All right. Anyway, thank you so much. I know you have, you're on call and you have a dinner with your family, so I appreciate the time you spent and I hope to see you very soon.

[01:06:11] Dr. Sean Rockett: All right. Yeah. Well, are you going to the games?

[01:06:14] Dr. Sam Rhee: Um, I'm going to the Masters Games.

[01:06:16] Dr. Sean Rockett: Oh, all right.

[01:06:17] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yes, um, which, so I'm sure that, uh, um, that, uh, I'll see a lot of aches and pains there that I can sort of, uh, no, I'm just kidding. But, uh, no, I'll be going to that. The, the, the one in Austin is really oversubscribed. I think it's a small arena. I think there are going to be a ton of people.

[01:06:33] Dr. Sean Rockett: Oh, wow. Okay.

[01:06:35] Dr. Sam Rhee: be huge, and so, um, so the schedule for me works out better for Labor Day, and I do have some friends who are going, and I have, there's one person in our gym who, uh, Tracy McGee, who's gonna be competing, so I'm pretty excited

[01:06:46] Dr. Sean Rockett: Oh, cool.

[01:06:47] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yes, so, um, um, but, uh, I'll be watching you at the sidelines on the games, making sure that, yeah, everything, well, listen, you're right, if you're in the spotlight, there's, there's not, there's never anything good with that, I, I understand that, uh, so, but you're, you're gonna be, uh, doing the things that you do, and I, I really appreciate that, that's really awesome, so.

[01:07:07] Dr. Sean Rockett: Oh, thanks, man. Thanks, man. It's great. Great talking to you.