S04E85 Balancing Perfect SATs, Orthopaedic Surgery, and Life: The Journey of Dr. Jesse Allert

Join us for a fascinating conversation with Dr. Jesse Allert, a brilliant orthopedic surgeon who has mastered the art of balance between his professional and personal life. From his perfect SAT score to his tragically short collegiate basketball career, and rigorous training at The College of New Jersey, New York Medical College, and the Florida Orthopedic Institute, Dr. Allert's journey is a compelling story of dedication. He opens up about his reasons for choosing orthopaedics, how he maintains equilibrium between patient care, family, and fitness, and offers his unique perspective on the role of CrossFit in his practice.

In our discussion, we also explore the collaborative spirit that fuels the medical field. We reflect on the transformative power of technology, such as social messaging groups, in modern surgical training and peer consultation. We share personal anecdotes that underline the importance of mentorship, the necessity of peer consultations, and the mutual respect between different surgical specialties. This chapter of our conversation shines a light on the communal aspects of being a doctor, emphasizing the invaluable support network that shapes daily medical practice.

Finally, we dive into the world of surgical procedures and rituals that keep us focused. Dr. Allert talks about his love for performing arthroplasty and labral repair surgeries, revealing the technical nuances and patient-specific considerations that come into play. We also discuss how music can set the tone in the operating room, enhancing both concentration and camaraderie. From the importance of maintaining fitness through activities like swimming and CrossFit to the strategies for achieving career growth and life balance, this episode is packed with insights and inspiration for anyone interested in the multifaceted life of an orthopedic surgeon. Don't miss out on this in-depth discussion with Dr. Jesse Allert!

Click on your podcast site to listen and subscribe!

S04E85 Balancing Perfect SATs, Orthopaedic Surgery, and Life: The Journey of Dr. Jesse Allert

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:04] Dr. Sam Rhee: I like comparing surgeons to professional athletes. That is a vain comparison, of course, and it doesn't hold up when you look at the details. But just bear with me for a moment. When surgeons start out their career out of training, usually around the age of 30, they generally have a lot of enthusiasm.

They are eager to take on everything they've learned in residency and start operating as the surgeon in charge. But just like professional football, basketball, or any other sport, There's no substitute for experience in surgery. No matter how much raw talent, energy, and enthusiasm you may have, you've got to be in game time situations over and over again to know how to perform and succeed.

I have known Dr. Jesse Allert, orthopedic surgeon, for over 13 years. I met him when he was finishing his residency training at my gym, CrossFit Bison, and he was everything you would want your surgeon to be. Friendly, knowledgeable, and caring. I knew even before he finished his shoulder, elbow, knee trauma fellowship and came back to New Jersey that he'd be an amazing surgeon.

And now that he has years under his belt, he's been the go to guy for orthopedic injuries for so many of my friends and colleagues. Now when you hear us talking about his journey to becoming a surgeon, starting with his perfect SAT scores in high school, then with a full ride to college, but then an admittedly short collegiate basketball career at TCNJ due to injury.

You can see how that injury might have helped shape his subsequent path to medical school, residency, fellowship, and now finally in his prime as a sports shoulder knee trauma orthopedic surgeon. He balances patient care, family, and his personal goal to stay healthy himself. Dr. Allert has come a long way. To quote a recent movie, you know how long he's been waiting for this? Ooh, he's about to make a name for himself here.

it was so great to talk to Jesse about his life, His thoughts on CrossFit, fitness in general, and where he might go from here.

You might call him the Justin Herbert, Chargers QB under Coach Harbaugh, or Jason Tatum, Boston Celtic and former Blue Devil of Orthopedic Surgery. He's on the rise and he's only going to get better. I hope you enjoyed listening to Dr. Allard as much as I did speaking with him. Thank you very much. Welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees, the surgical edition. I have with me a very special guest, orthopedic surgeon, Dr. Jesse Allert. I've known Jesse for a long time. Uh, from the gym. Let me intro you, Jesse, and, uh, let me recount all of your, uh, accomplishments and your achievements over the years.

So, uh, you're a Staten Island kid, born and raised in Staten Island. And you have, you are probably one of the only surgeons I know who had a perfect 1, 600 on your SAT coming out of high school, which is, uh, a pretty notable accomplishment. Um, love that. Uh, and as you say, you flex it, uh, or actually your colleagues make you flex it every time, uh, uh, they have an opportunity to, uh, make fun of you about it.

Um, your undergrad, you went to the College of New Jersey, uh, TCNJ, where you played basketball. Uh, you went to New York Medical College in Valhalla for, uh, your medical degree. And then you did your orthopedic surgical residency at Seton Hall University. You did your Shoulder and Elbow Reconstruction Trauma and, uh, sorry, Shoulder Knee Elbow Reconstruction Sports and Trauma Fellowship down at Florida Orthopedic Institute in Tampa, and they have over 70 physicians.

That is a ginormous, uh, institution. That is crazy. And I want to talk to you a little bit about your fellowship in a second, but, um, since your fellowship, you've been out about eight years, I think, or so. Uh, and, uh, Is that right?

[00:03:55] Dr. Jesse Allert: Number 16, yep.

[00:03:56] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yep. And then, uh, and you're an assistant professor at Hackensack Meridian School of Medicine, and you've been at your practice restoration orthopedics for the entire duration.

Uh, you are the go to expert for shoulder injury, sports trauma, and reconstruction. And anything that has to do, uh, in those areas, including arthroplasty. So welcome, Jesse. Thanks for joining me on this podcast. And I really appreciate you taking the time. I know how busy you are.

[00:04:23] Dr. Jesse Allert: So I will give you a formal thank you for your invite. Um, it's scary to think that I'm almost 10 years in practice, number one. It's also scary to think that I'm almost, I, I've kind of known you, uh, for I think almost, uh, 13 or 14 years. So I don't, I don't know exactly when Bison started, but I remember you were always the Uh, resourceful person in the gym that had, uh, Dermabond in his car at all times, um, and now this new, uh, succeeding still in your private practice and, uh, dominating the, uh, the, the scene here on multiple venues, multiple platforms, and obviously knowing your reputation, I appreciate you, I'm happy to be here.

[00:05:06] Dr. Sam Rhee: Well, uh, I know we keep you busy at our gym in terms of supplying you with no end of, uh, patience. And, uh, I want to get your thoughts in a little bit later about, uh, what you think about CrossFit and, and the, and in your line of work. But let me, uh, first talk to you about your training and, uh, what got you into orthopedic surgery.

So, Um, let me ask you just straight up. Why, why ortho? Um, what made you go into ortho? And what was it that appealed to you about it?

[00:05:42] Dr. Jesse Allert: Um. So always a complex answer. I don't have a specific, uh, uh, reason, I guess. Uh, it probably goes way back to, um, medical school and college. And I went to the college of New Jersey, had a great time there. Full scholarship, uh, did, did well, always grades kind of came easy to me. And I, my mom was a nurse, um, always, uh, you know, got great care at home.

And I got a, uh, Uh, when I was sick by my mom. Um, and then, uh, since you brought up the SAT score, I'll be fully transparent and say, uh, when I first took my MCAT junior year in college, um, I kind of thought I was going to just do well and didn't work very hard at it. And I paid the price on my first MCAT.

And, um, um, so I wound up having to take it a second time and gave up a good chunk of my, I guess it would be senior year to take it again. And then, you know, did, did well enough to get into, into medical school. Um, but interestingly in college, I actually had a shoulder injury. I feel like I've probably broken almost 10 bones over the course of my life.

Most, most of them when I was younger. Um, so maybe I got some kind of subconscious exposure, um, always was around traders and, um, and therapists, uh, playing basketball and again, full transparency, I did play basketball at division three college in New Jersey, but I only played for, um, maybe a year and a half before I tore my labrum and then had surgery and, um, I scored one point in my college career, so I'm no Aaron Syvertsen. I could tell my kids that I scored, um, and it was on the second free throw of the two free throws that I took, uh, freshman year, so there was a lot of pressure on that free throw, so, um, but, uh, yeah, I had labral surgery, I had shoulder surgery, and, um, Um, it actually didn't go perfectly, but I did like my surgeon.

I got great exposure to him. And then fast forward to, um, you know, through medical school into residency. Um, I actually rotated at St. Joseph's, um, which is not, which is also known as a Seton Hall program in Patterson. And I always thought it was kind of this under the radar program where, um, I mean, being in Patterson, I got, um, It was, you know, I won't, I won't talk to you about old school programs, but I'll say it was a very, uh, a ton of responsibility early, um, in a good way for training.

Um, and, uh, a ton of independence, uh, early too. And in Patterson for orthopedics, you'd be taking call, um, you know, uh, spine, hand trauma and foot and ankle all at the same time, which is a lot.

[00:08:32] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah.

[00:08:34] Dr. Jesse Allert: And in Patterson, um, as I think most people know, you're around a lot of highways, so you get high energy trauma, but you also, um, sort of see, uh, penetrating trauma, so knives and, and guns can create interesting patterns for, uh, traumatic injuries as, as you know, as

[00:08:52] Dr. Sam Rhee: Mm

[00:08:53] Dr. Jesse Allert: And so I got great exposure there, but I didn't really get The exposure in shoulder and elbow until like shoulder replacements and shoulder arthroscopy until more third year. And it was at that time that I got to spend some time in Princeton with, uh, one of my mentors, Jeff Abrams, who's. You know, arthroscopist who makes everything look, um, look simple and, um, just technically gifted, but also such a nice guy, nice enough to make me feel welcome in the, in the OR as a third year resident and just one of the giants in, uh, in, in, um, shoulder surgery.

And he kind of, you know, swayed me a little bit towards shoulder and elbow, so. Long winded answer to say, I probably don't know is like a lot of things just kind of who you bump into and who, who persuaded you. And, um, and, uh, yeah, so, um, wound up in Tampa, finally got out of New York, New Jersey, and wound up in Tampa for a year with, uh, with two great, uh, mentors, Dr.

Franklin, Dr. Mile. And, um, came back to New Jersey because, uh, family and friends are still in good old Staten Island. And my wife's family are, uh, Still in the Jersey Shore,

[00:10:02] Dr. Sam Rhee: Right.

[00:10:03] Dr. Jesse Allert: family always. Yeah,

[00:10:05] Dr. Sam Rhee: yeah. No, you got, you got ties around here. You gotta come back. That's always the way it is, of course.

[00:10:09] Dr. Jesse Allert: not everything makes it out of Staten Island, so I can still say I made it to New Jersey, I guess, if that counts.

[00:10:14] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah, that's, that's a quite a hop, skip and a jump for, for most Aden Islanders, that's for sure. Uh, but, so, at this point, you have been into practice for about eight years now. And, I, I know, uh, eight years in, I felt like I really started to get a handle on a, on a lot. Like, you know what you're doing, for the most part, when you're coming out of fellowship.

But when you start operating a lot independently and doing a lot of cases and you're constantly seeing a lot of Um, pathology, you, you really start to develop your own style, what you like, how to be, you know, um, really refine and hone your technique. What would you say over the past eight years has, has been the best way for you to get better at what you do?

[00:11:02] Dr. Jesse Allert: Um, so I'll say, uh, uh, I remember, um, Mark Frankel, one of my mentors in Tampa, used to always say, when you first come out of fellowship, Be humble, don't be overconfident, ask for help if you're not sure about something, you know, ask for people to come in and help you out or assist and, um, I think, especially early on, if there's something, if there was anything, even trauma wise or whatever that I wasn't comfortable with, then, um, I try, you know, you try not to let your, um, ego get in the way and make sure you call for help or if you're, you know, everyone has, if you operate, you have complications if you operate, so.

Make sure you include everyone, um, and ask mentors or other experts in the area kind of what their feelings are if you have questions. So, um, and even still to this day, you know, I'm lucky enough to be on WhatsApp chats and groups, all sorts of groups that really are from across the country, whether they're alumni from the same fellowship or residency, um, that I am not shy about sending, um, Cases to take votes.

If I see a patient with a controversial case, I'll say, look, this is what I would do, I think I could also do this. If you want, I'll, I'll get you 10, 10 opinions with tonight. And I'll let you know the vote by tomorrow, which I think is key. Uh, it's always funny. I mean, I won't ask you, uh, or I will ask you maybe when, when you train, you know.

Um, I, I remember the days where I couldn't look up a video on YouTube on how to reduce the scrolling in the ER. You had to look at little stick figures on a, on a fracture handbook. down and kind of pretend like you knew what you were doing and uh, um, and so, you know. I still remember paper charts and all these things.

And, and, and, you know, when you trained, you didn't have a epic or EMRs to look up x rays or right. So

[00:12:53] Dr. Sam Rhee: no, that, that's, listen, when I, I took a fair amount of hand calls, especially at Michigan, and a lot of distal radius fractures, and I always was like, why as a plastic surgeon am I dealing with these distal radius fractures? This is, this, we should stop somewhere in the carpal bone, you know, somewhere at the wrist, but, but that's what we did.

So I, you know, I would go down there and there inevitably would be a bazillion distal radius fractures, have the portable C arm, do the reduction, like, you know, get the films. Um, my bosses never won. All they, they didn't care about anything other than throw the films under their door so that they could take a look at the reduction for the next day.

And so, I got really good at, uh, being a wrangler for the, for the, for the C Arm, getting the reduction, you know, getting them, uh, in traction, you know, getting it all set up. And, uh, and then, uh, you know, actually back, now that I look back at it, it was kind of fun dealing with all the, uh, K Wires and And the plates and all that sort of stuff, but at the time it was, uh, you're right, I, if I didn't know something, I would, I would open up Greens, the textbook, in the call room, I'd look at it really quick, and then I'd be like, okay, I think I know enough from this that I think I could try to figure it out when I get back, when I get down, uh, uh, to the ER, so, uh, You're right.

It's, uh, the, the learning curve is, is much better. And the way people learn now is, is probably a lot better than, than it was back in the day.

[00:14:18] Dr. Jesse Allert: Well, I, I appreciate your, your humbleness on the matter, but, um, you know, to me, it's always interesting. It's the orthopedists that call the plastic surgeons often when they need help with, uh, you know, soft tissue coverage or I have colleagues, you know, like, like yourself, that, You know, orthopedists are, are trained to do exposures that keep you away from the nerves most of the time or away from the vessels.

Um, and it's the plastic surgeons that can get you in and get you out of trouble and, uh, um, and so that's why it's good to be nice to the plastic surgeons and, and befriend, uh, befriend them so that they can help you if, uh, if you count, if you have time and need. So,

[00:14:54] Dr. Sam Rhee: that's, it's very kind for you to say. I also know that the ortho guys really only call us in when we really, when they're not in a good spot, like, uh, you know, having worked with some of the heart back guys and the hardware coverage guys, uh, like it's usually when they're calling in the plot, like the enlightened, uh, ortho guys will call you in early.

The, uh, ones who, uh, are not quite there yet, we'll call you in, uh, only under desperate, uh, circumstances, but that's okay, like, we all work together well, and, uh, I've, I've, I am a closet ortho guy, uh, at heart, um, I think, uh, what you guys do actually, uh, is way more functional and, and interesting and, uh, from a functional standpoint, even more now that I CrossFit and I get so much more of an exposure to, um, anatomy and knee anatomy and, you know, hip anatomy and, and, and the functional aspects of that, but, um,

[00:15:51] Dr. Jesse Allert: say, you know, it's fun being a doctor and being a doctor in the community and being able to help people and people call you up for advice or help. I would say probably about half the phone calls I get from my, you know, from town or from friends of friends, I get my number and I always say, give me a call after whatever.

Half of them are maybe for a broken ankle or, but the other half are for, you know, You know, lacerations, they got a cut on the lip or the face or, um, and they want to know a plastic surgeon to call. So, uh, you know, it's good to know the plastic surgeons like yourself.

[00:16:24] Dr. Sam Rhee: very true. I have, uh, I'm always, uh, available and happy to help people, uh, if they're in need for something like that, for sure. I just, uh, saw someone this weekend who, uh, Smash the finger on a, on a dumbbell. So it was happy to help with that too. So, um, so at this point, what are one of your favorite surgical procedures to do?

What do you really like, enjoy, like, what do you really enjoy doing in the OR at this point?

[00:16:48] Dr. Jesse Allert: Uh, well, luckily I still like shoulder surgery, which is nice since that's where the fellowship and, and I think there's, uh, I think when you think about shoulder surgery, it doesn't sound like a broad scope or like you have to have a broad breadth of knowledge or expertise to sort of focus on this area.

So, um, But, um, I like being able to open surgeries like shoulder replacements, uh, but also being able to do arthrostomies like, uh, rotator cuff repairs or, or labral repairs. If I had to choose, uh, one in each, I would probably say, um, arthroplasty. I think there's nothing, um, Uh, I think it's, it's a, it's, it's a fun case technically, but, um, I can, I can usually, you know, just look at an x ray, um, before you walk in and say, I can help this patient reliably.

And, uh, I think the mindset is, you see these people that have had pain for, for a decade or so, or 5 to 10 years, they're used to living with pain, they forget what it's like to have a, a smoothly articulating joint. And then. Um, you know, a week after surgery, usually, um, they, they sort of say, look, I didn't have as much pain as I thought it was going to, uh, I was going to have because they're used to living in pain, their mindset's different.

And then a week after they're kind of feeling better with it. So, um, so shoulder replacements, great. Um, and then probably labral repair surgery. So, you know, shoulder dislocations and, uh, in the athletic population of the younger, um, kids, I always say it's, it's interesting because it's one of the few things that were more aggressive about fixing, um, because the literature is so strong about decreasing the recurrence for instability in, um, you know, teenagers or.

Um, or, or, or athletes in their younger 20s, so, um, and again, I, I had labral surgery when I was younger, so I kinda, um, know the, the goods and bads, and, um, um, yeah, I mean, I had an implant put in more than 20 years ago that, when it first came out, um, um, They thought it sounded cool cause it was an absorbing anchor.

Um, but what they didn't know at the time was that when it absorbs, it leaves a giant cyst in your socket. So, um, so I've actually had a recurrent injury, which I won't bore you with details of, but where it fractured through the, through the glenoid. And, um, and so I also think I have a unique insight into implants and how, you know, try to avoid complications, but

[00:19:18] Dr. Sam Rhee: absolutely.

[00:19:20] Dr. Jesse Allert: yeah,

[00:19:20] Dr. Sam Rhee: I know a lot of people who have labral tears, so they just kind of live with it. Is this something now that the literature is saying maybe you should be more aggressive about addressing them? Cause I didn't know this like back in the day, like I thought a lot of people just kind of tried to.

Manage it, um, non surgically.

[00:19:40] Dr. Jesse Allert: types of label tears. So I think, um, from my, from, for the labels here that I had, I did not dislocate my shoulder, my shoulder. When I was, uh, um, in college, I was lifting weights, you know, watching myself in the mirror, get a nice pump with like a 10 pound dumbbell. I wasn't even doing anything interesting.

And I just felt my shoulder give way. I was not lifting Sam Rhee, uh, weights. Um, and, uh, And I just felt my shoulder give way, and I didn't have an opportunity to try physical therapy, and I probably should have, and honestly, if this, if, if I saw my injury now, I wouldn't have recommended surgery, so, um, the surgeries that were usually a little bit more, um, aggressive in recommending are complete dislocations where you're nervous of, that somebody's just going to continue to dislocate.

And, um, but yeah, I mean, now I have a labral tear on my left shoulder and I, you know, I'm still able to do most, um, activities and do pull ups and, uh, and not as many as I was able to do, uh, when I was looking at Dave and Chris, but, um, but yeah, I mean, labral tears, I think it would, it depends on how much it's bothering you and if you have instability.

If you don't have instability, then you can absolutely leave it at least. So yeah, it's interesting how the literature has shifted, but, um, um, we, we both have mutual friends that have label tears that, that were left alone and are doing just fine. So, um,

[00:21:10] Dr. Sam Rhee: now you operate both in your own surgery center, is that right? As well as out at other hospitals. So when you set up, I, I assume it's probably different when you're at a, at a hospital like Valley or Hackensack versus when you're in your own setup. But is there anything that you really like to have or is part of your prep routine as a surgeon to just sort of get you in, you know, locked in or in the mode or ready to go for, for any particular surgery?

[00:21:38] Dr. Jesse Allert: um, I think one of the good things about doing the same surgeries over and over, and I do have a fair amount of trauma in my practice just from taking calls and I enjoy that and I have great partners that, you know, if I have a trauma that I don't see very often that requires sort of someone that did a fellowship, then I have Julie Keller to, to back me up.

Um, but when you do the same surgery kind of over and over, it's, it's just nice to, um, have people in the room that know the routine and know how to set up. Now I have. We have a physician assistant that's great, that, you know, knows what to prep with, what to, because occasionally, I'm sure, as you know, and, and, you know, not to name, Valley's always been great, actually, with, like, preference cards.

That's, like, one of the most impressive things I've ever seen with Valley. Like, I do, you do want Pace there, and they have everything recorded, but, um, certainly you get someone who, Is maybe new to the OR or doesn't know your routine. Um, um, you know, it's nice to have, uh, people that help you set up before you can get in the room, like position assistant.

And, um, I think that's a great, so,

[00:22:46] Dr. Sam Rhee: What do you listen to in the OR when you, uh, when you operate?

[00:22:50] Dr. Jesse Allert: um, so I am still partial to my Staten Island roots and go club, uh, dance music. Oh, so I said, uh, I stick with Avicii or Calvin Harris. Um, And, uh, because I think that that's maybe a little bit more mainstream, I, I, I would, um, I would say that, um, It, it can be a little annoying when you hear the suction and the noise of the, uh, And I don't listen to my music very loud.

So, um, cause you, you know, obviously you want to be able to, to hear everyone, but, um, with the suction and all the other noises going on, or sometimes it drowns out the, the vocal or the, and all you, all you hear is the, the bass. So it can be repetitive, but I'll also say that I read the room and, um, I, I, I would say on Monday, my case is I listened to Frank Sinatra.

[00:23:47] Dr. Sam Rhee: wow.

[00:23:48] Dr. Jesse Allert: I always ask the patient what they want to listen to when they're going to sleep. So I had a patient that's had Frank Sinatra, and both me and the anesthesiologist looked at each other and we said, This is kind of, you know, relaxing and feeling like a good Monday playlist. And so we listened to Frank Sinatra, and Uh, my partner listens to, uh, to, to country.

So, uh, we listened to country for the second half of the day, uh, to appease my partner and thank him for his assistance. So what are you listening to?

[00:24:19] Dr. Sam Rhee: well, I do a lot of in office stuff, so the patients are usually just like lightly sedated. So a lot of it's kind of like lo fi chill type music. Um, back in the day when I was operating, um, in the hospital more, it was a lot of 90s kind of grunge. Like if you ever hear SiriusXM lithium, like, you

[00:24:41] Dr. Jesse Allert: Yeah.

[00:24:42] Dr. Sam Rhee: uh, yeah, like Limp Bizkit or Pearl Jam or I don't know.

Whatever else. So, so there's a lot of that there. Um, I, you got to read the room, like you said, though, if you put that on too loud, the, uh, scrubs and the, uh, a lot of time, the circulators are a little bit on the older generation, so you got to kind of, you know, you got to put on a little bit of the, uh, seventies, eighties, nineties, smooth mix type

[00:25:07] Dr. Jesse Allert: Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:09] Dr. Sam Rhee: to, to keep them happy.

[00:25:10] Dr. Jesse Allert: you know, it's interesting for what I don't like silence in the room. So I like to have a little bit of, uh, something, uh, you know, keep everybody calm and, um, Uh, I feel like they had studies about that at one point in the past about, you know, what happens whether you have music or not and the, you know, it wasn't like an increased complication rate.

So it's not like we're all dancing around the OR not paying attention, but Maybe it enhances the flow and the, uh, you know, the camaraderie there in the case. And I think, uh, I think it's good to have music on in person.

[00:25:43] Dr. Sam Rhee: I listen, anything that, uh, I've heard so many different answers and I will say, as long as it, I think if it gets you into flow state. Where, you know what it's like, you're in the O. R. and it's like, it feels like it's 10 minutes, but it's really like, you know, 90? Then you know, whatever it is that got you into that sort of state is good, you know, you're, you're locked in, you're just sort of, you're not even thinking, like everything just sort of naturally flows for you.

Like, that, you know, and for some people, it might be Country, some people it might be Frank Sinatra, some people it might be Steve Aoki, who, who knows, but, um, But I will, um, but I think everyone's personality is a little bit different. So that's why I like asking that one. Um, so at this point you are, um, you're, uh, in the prime of your career.

You are, you have a family. Um, how do you do, how do you handle, you're, you're still busy as hell. You're taking call, you're, you're working your ass off, I assume. Um, how do you manage your time? Like what kind of time management skills? Do you practice to make sure that you're sort of getting everything done and yet also spending time, you know, uh, with your loved ones and, and everything else?

[00:26:56] Dr. Jesse Allert: I'm not sure that I do manage the time. Great. You'll have to ask my wife at times. Uh, but I think, um, I think for me, I have a three year old and a six year old at home and. Um, I think with my schedule, so I have my elective shoulder cases. Um, and then I also have managed to set aside time for, um, for call stuff.

I mean, the hospitals have really gotten a lot better. And even just in the last 12 months about getting cases in, in the morning. So I actually try and free up my morning sometimes to take care of, uh, sort of the trauma cases that come in overnight, but sometimes. As you know, it's like you sit up and wait and then it's a quiet night or so instead of feeling, feeling like a, um, uh, like a failure, sorry, uh, and not, and not being busy or st I, I, I totally embrace it and I stay home, drop my kids off and try and, uh, Um, you know, try and take advantage of any downtime.

I remember when I first came out again from fellowship, um, my mentors would kind of say, uh, don't feel bad if you're not busy, take, take advantage. Cause you know, down the road, you're going to miss those times. And, uh, um, and, and so, yeah, I mean, any downtime, I try and take advantage, uh, um, and, and plan ahead.

So. You know, the good thing, you're a private practice guy, and kudos to you, I'm still, um, that's, that's still a work in progress, and as someone who hopes to have a few more decades of, uh, of practice at them, it's, it's funny to see the landscape change, and Um, you know, we, we, we thought about or had offers to join other groups, but it's still nice to be your own boss too.

So occasionally if I get in the weeds and maybe have a rough week or two, or I can always set it, set aside an afternoon to, to take my, my kids somewhere or do something, something fun. So

[00:28:51] Dr. Sam Rhee: nice. Uh, I might ask you a re interview in five years and see where you're sitting in terms of your practice. I mean, I know a lot of surgeons with private equity or with these really super mega practices, like they're, it's started, you're, like you said, the landscape's changing.

There's a lot of money being thrown around, whether or not, That's best for you, your life, or, um, yeah, your future practice is always, is always of issue, I think, so,

[00:29:17] Dr. Jesse Allert: Tough to predict the future. I, again, I give you credit. You're, you're, do you have any PAs or you're, you're kind of by yourself, right?

[00:29:23] Dr. Sam Rhee: pretty solo, yeah, I have a,

[00:29:26] Dr. Jesse Allert: one man army. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:28] Dr. Sam Rhee: you can get away with that in plastic surgery, not, not so much in most other specialties, let's put it that way,

[00:29:32] Dr. Jesse Allert: Yeah, at least, at least I have my two partners to kind of, you know, go along the ride with, but, um, yeah, I have, I'm, I'm friendly with most orthopedists in the, in the area. And when I see them joining a big group that has a big name or whatever, you wonder if the grass is going to be greener on the other side, but I've already seen people that thought it was going to be good.

And then. You know, quickly realize it was not as good as they thought and, and, you know, it comes full circle, but you never know. And so, I, I try and play nice in the sandbox and be nice to everyone because, um, you know, I always joke, I never know who's gonna Uh, you know, try and take over the practice or, or, you know, join, want to join or, or join forces or what.

So,

[00:30:17] Dr. Sam Rhee: You're absolutely right, and I think we, I'm not going to name names either, but I'm just thinking of one, one shoulder guy who joined and then quickly got out, and I, I think the experience was less than, uh, less than optimal for, for, for him. Thank you. So then, what do you do now for fitness for yourself?

You look like you've been maintaining your fitness. I haven't seen you at our gym in a while, but I will say you, you still look like you're keeping up. So what does an orthopedic surgeon do to maintain his fitness?

[00:30:48] Dr. Jesse Allert: Uh, so I will say that whenever I bump into anyone from the CrossFit gym, uh, including yourself, Sam, I am motivated in a bio way. I said, man, I'm not, I'm not in good shape. I got to get back in good shape and go back. Uh, um, For me, it's become, I, I go to the good old YMCA. So I kind of was raised lifting weights in the Staten Island YMCA.

And there's a YMCA, uh, uh, about a mile and a half from me, which winds up being a good run to and from. And, um, I'm just doing boring old weights and trying to run and even swimming. I, you know, my, my recurrent, uh, injury, um, When my shoulder started bothering me a little bit, uh, in 2021, I, I took off swimming again.

And, um, growing up high school, it was always my best sport was actually swimming. So I, I've missed it. And, um, it, it's actually, uh, it's, it's a great escape. So I don't have an Apple watch that I can take with me in the water. I can't take my cell phone with me in the water. And. Um, you know, it's a great escape to be submerged and doing, doing laps and what, what I, I gave up because I eventually thought it was boring to just swim 300 laps for practice and, and in training, uh, I've actually wound up returning to.

[00:32:06] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah, and I would think that that probably is as good of a fitness regimen as anything out there for sure.

[00:32:13] Dr. Jesse Allert: yeah.

[00:32:14] Dr. Sam Rhee: So anyway,

[00:32:17] Dr. Jesse Allert: cardio? Are you doing any, uh, you know,

[00:32:20] Dr. Sam Rhee: I just, I just try to lift my barbells faster. That's, that's my cardio right

[00:32:24] Dr. Jesse Allert: Yeah.

[00:32:24] Dr. Sam Rhee: I'm just kidding. No, actually, Dave has us running a lot these days. I don't know. I

[00:32:29] Dr. Jesse Allert: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:32:30] Dr. Sam Rhee: trying to turn us all into these high rocks athletes. And so I'm just like, uh, I'm

[00:32:35] Dr. Jesse Allert: like he's doing a good block. Yeah. So,

[00:32:37] Dr. Sam Rhee: So, uh, yeah, we did a bunch of 400s today.

I was like, no thanks. Um, So anyway, um,

[00:32:44] Dr. Jesse Allert: I always remember you on the Wednesday morning workouts with the, uh, cardio still, you know, dominating. Uh, um, so those are the, we, I don't know if he's still doing that on Wednesday mornings, but those are my favorites.

[00:32:57] Dr. Sam Rhee: yes, you're right. The, the, um, the bodyweight, uh, stuff is, there's always one programmed every week. It just, um, we, we've, he's mixed it up now, so it's not always on a Wednesday. Sometimes it's on a Tuesday or Thursday, just so that people, you know, if you only come in for a certain time, a certain day every week, you didn't get the same thing.

So this way you could mix it up for people, but you're right. I think, uh, You know, the way to get fit, and I truly believe it, is how well do you move your own body, right? It's not, like, moving, uh, an external load, it's, it's really, you know, as you get older, you have to be able to move your own body well, and, and so I am a strong believer in that. Um,

[00:33:37] Dr. Jesse Allert: Yeah. I, I, I completely agree. I, I actually regret, uh, I, I think working on coordination and. You see people tripping and falling, uh, uh, as, as they get older. It's, it's funny. I listened to, um, uh, Peter Athia, who's, who's a medical, who's all into longevity and hit, you know, his podcast of four hours and they go really into the weeds, maybe probably a little bit too much for a lot of people, but, um, but he says his favorite lifting exercise is, um, you know, step ups on and, and, and, um, And box jumps, uh, cause he feels like it's going to help him the best to keep him from tripping down a curve or tripping up a curve when he gets older.

So, um, you know, so I think CrossFit has a role and, um, a lot of those functional exercises are great and, uh, gonna, gonna keep those joints young, Sam. So,

[00:34:32] Dr. Sam Rhee: You know, that's so funny, I'm coaching to, um, Thursday, and the workout are, uh, weighted step ups and box jumps, that's part of it, so you just hit the nail on the head on that one. Um, when you, when you see patients who are athletes, um, and they ask you about CrossFit, what do you say to them? Do you encourage it?

Do you tell them, do you caution them about certain movements? I know you, you know, you're very familiar with it. That's why a lot of, um, uh, people at our gym and other gyms trust you is because, like you said, you, you walk the walk, you talk the talk, you've known. Uh, you, you know exactly what this is all about.

So, so what is your advice when you talk to, to patients or, or just anyone interested in, in exercise?

[00:35:17] Dr. Jesse Allert: uh, so when I, when I came to CrossFit, uh, I think I was a third year resident. Um, and. A lot of the brunt of doing calls, um, was on the earlier side of residency. So first, second, third year. And so I was working hard, not sleeping well. And, uh, I'm sure you know, you know, you come home after a, uh, after a long day and you come home in the morning.

And I felt like I earned the brownie a la mode for breakfast when I got home after a long night of OR and running around the ER. So, um, I came, you know, I was probably about. Nothing terrible, but probably about 20 pounds overweight. My back was hurting. And so, usually what I tell people is, people are nervous about injuries and you can get injured doing, you know, anything.

For me, my personal experience, I stayed within my comfort zone. I joined a good gym with people that I still respect and Um, um, and, and think about, and, um, you know, I think, um, for, for me going to CrossFit, I, I actually, while I've lost, losing weight, I, I, uh, uh, my back pain went, went away. Um, I felt like I was in the best shape of my life.

And for me, actually, even with studying fourth and fifth year, and still to this day, I, I can remember, Um, some sort of workout. I think it might have been 100 wall balls. Is, is that, does that sound like,

[00:36:48] Dr. Sam Rhee: There's 150, uh, uh, there's 150 wall ball workout that, uh, that is,

[00:36:53] Dr. Jesse Allert: So it was 100 wall balls, and I remember, um, looking up at the target. Um, which I think was just like a, like a little red line. Not like the fancy, you know, gym that, that you guys have now, but. And I just remember the mental toughness of, of just trying to just suck it up and keep pushing the wall ball.

Um, and I still think of that occasionally when I feel like I'm tired or, and this is in all aspects of life, not just surgery, but I think back, I think it creates mental toughness and, um, you know, so it's a good escape. I think it was good for, for me. It helped prevent injuries, if anything, and it helped me, um, it helped with my back pain.

Um, I think for me, and I, I bet you Dave still remembers this about me, but I was probably one of the least flexible people in the gym. Um, so I, I, I had to, you know, I had to, uh, scale a lot of my workouts cause I couldn't get, you know, I can't do front, I couldn't do overhead squats or. I was nervous I was going to hurt something.

So for me, it probably would not have been smart to, to, to be lifting heavy weights with an overhead squat, because I'm not flexible enough. It's just not in my genes. I've tried and tried it. So, you know, so

[00:38:05] Dr. Sam Rhee: It must be something about the TCNJ play, uh, basketball players because Aaron was exactly the same way as you. So it must be, uh, it must be the college you guys went to or something. I don't know.

[00:38:14] Dr. Jesse Allert: So yeah, so, but I think CrossFit's great and uh, I, I think, uh, I, I still have patients that, uh, that do. I was encouraged to do it by two orthopedic surgeons that were all, that were both in probably the best shape of their life when they were 10, 15 years older than me. Um, and then I met Nick Benedetto and my, my wife was friends with him and I came and gave it, and I was, uh, I thought it was great.

I still think it's great, so.

[00:38:41] Dr. Sam Rhee: So, um, And of course, everything does have some risk to it. So you do see patients who are CrossFitters who have, say, shoulder issues. Now, as a surgeon, I know most surgeons just want to operate. They don't want their clinics filled with a bunch of non operative people that don't need anything, that are just kind of sucking up your time.

So like, what is your ideal clinic day in terms of like, when do you want to see patients with shoulder injuries? Like It's not like when they first feel a little twinge, I assume. It's like, at what point are you like, you know what, you don't need to see physio or PT, you need to come and see me. Like, at what point is it that you're like, yeah, you gotta, you gotta give me a call.

[00:39:25] Dr. Jesse Allert: Um, you know, it's funny, uh, I was just talking today about a perfect client day and When I was in fellowship, my, again, you know, Dr. Frankel used to see his, um, shoulder replacers back annually, and they probably didn't need to come back, there was nothing new that he added, they just kind of had a conversation, and he said, he said, selfishly, it's nice to see your, your patients come back annually to remind you that, you know, You, you, you, you have success out there and you, you help people because ultimately, you know, your clinic becomes filled with patients with injuries or, um, patients that have maybe complications or issues because those are the people that want to come back.

Once they do good, they, they leave. They don't want to come back. But, um, so that, you know, I was just thinking of that today, but as far as. As far as injuries, I mean, I have a, we have a physician assistant that helps us see sort of some of the stuff that are, that are a little bit more non operative or, um, but I still see people that say, I don't, I don't want to come, you know, I don't need to come to you.

You're, you're a surgeon and I don't necessarily want surgery. I mean, some of the best relationships I have are with physical therapists or, um, you know, chiropractors or whatever that I send people to and, uh, You know, again, I still live with the, um, idea that I may have been fine with physical therapy with my labrum, uh, you know, 23 years ago.

And I wish that I'd tried that before surgery. Um, and, and, and with shoulder surgery, it's, it's interesting cause there are people with walking around with rotator cuff tears, full, full thickness rotator cuff tears or labral tears that maybe don't, you know, don't even know it. And this is in the literature.

So not everyone needs to be fixed. And to be honest, this is why I like my traumas. Sometimes I like taking fall. You see someone in the trauma bay with, with, with a bone that comes through the skin. You know, that they need surgery. It's not,

[00:41:22] Dr. Sam Rhee: Uh

[00:41:23] Dr. Jesse Allert: so it's not a conversation. You're like, yeah, let's get you in. And they don't really have many questions.

And, um, so I, you know, I have PowerPoints that kind of walk people through different injuries for shoulder surgery and when to operate and when not to, and, uh, there's not many catastrophic things in the shoulder that you can't leave alone and try not operate at first. So. I don't, I don't always mind the conversations and I think it builds rapport and, uh, relationships before you operate.

So that's nice. So, um, you know, I think there are some great practices out there, you know, that are set up where, where they, they, you see, um, you see the, the, you know, the PA or nurse or whatever

[00:42:04] Dr. Sam Rhee: Uh huh.

[00:42:05] Dr. Jesse Allert: before, and then you get worked up and then when you need surgery, that's when you meet the surgeon. So I don't mind seeing people with that.

So,

[00:42:13] Dr. Sam Rhee: Do you focus more on the function versus anatomy? Like I know some CrossFitters and their shoulders are destroyed, but they're still pretty functional. But I think if, but maybe for the long term, they might benefit from actually doing something instead of just kind of. You know, gutting it out. Like how, what's your philosophy on, on that, you know, function versus anatomy?

Like

[00:42:38] Dr. Jesse Allert: yeah, I, I think, um, I think that's something like the labrum. So if you have a labrum in a 15 year old and there's, um, there, there's some bone loss there. I, I tell patients, you know, 90 percent chance you're going to dislocate again. The second dislocation is going to get worse. And then the third dislocation is going to get worse.

And you see these horrible situations and kids that. Don't get it treated. So, um, you know, that's something that, that we've become more aggressive about, but, um, you know, rotator cuff tears, same thing, or younger, you know, you see a 40 year old active person with a rotator cuff tear, we know the statistics that it's going to progress.

So those things maybe you want to be a little bit more aggressive about, but, um, you know, there are plenty of other things that, that, that, yeah, I mean, it's, it's interesting. I don't know about you and, um, Um, but, but, you know, for orthopedic surgery, you're not always taught, um, you know, the ins and outs of physical therapy.

So I think it's great to have good physical therapists that you can refer to, and that really are better at functional, you know, adaptations that somebody, you know, might, you know, maybe your scapula is just a little bit off and that's, what's causing you pain. You go to, um, see a good physical therapist, uh, and they can, they can help you out and change your function a little bit and then your pain goes away.

So. Um,

[00:44:00] Dr. Sam Rhee: now, if I wanted to be Dr. Jesse Allert someday, like I'm listening to this podcast and I'm like, you know what, his life sounds pretty cool. I like, I want to do this. I want to become him. Then kind of advice would you give either to a high school student, a college student, medical student, resident? Someone starting out in their practice.

Like what kind of, how would you help someone be you at the, in the future?

[00:44:27] Dr. Jesse Allert: yeah. Um, so I, I think, um, I think, you know, stay humble n network the heck outta yourself and be nice to everybody. I know that's probably, you know, super cliche, but, um, you know, I, I, I was talking with you off air and I said, uh, you, you interviewed me to give me my privileges at, at one of the local hospitals.

They said, man, I was glad. I'm glad you know Sam, Sam doesn't hate me for. You know, I don't know, bad mouthing CrossFit or what, which I didn't, you know, I'm glad I, you know, so it's, it's, uh, I could think of so many, um, times where, where networking was really, uh, key. I mean, that's key in life, key in orthopedic surgery, key in whatever.

And, um, and again, right now, I, I, I, I like to say that, um, the people in my department I, I get along with, I, I think it's, uh, uh, Um, and so, you know, it doesn't take a good score on SAT. You can, you can, you can make it in other ways. So,

[00:45:31] Dr. Sam Rhee: I was about to say, do you have to get a 1600? Because that might be a little rough for some people to, to try to have to

[00:45:37] Dr. Jesse Allert: glad to get lucky, Sam. Yeah. So, um, so,

[00:45:42] Dr. Sam Rhee: Yeah. I mean, I would say, uh, having known you for all these years, yes, I would say. And I don't know if that's intrinsic to you or that's something you developed. I think that's actually part of your personality. You're someone who does relate very well to, um, to a lot of different people. You have a personality that's very engaging.

You're, um, you are really humble. Like, I just, you know, I mean, you sell yourself short about your athletic ability and what you've done. Uh, trust me, I know, because I've seen you work out. And, and so I feel like, Um, those, that's really good advice because, um, yeah, I do, like, there's no doubt, I remember seeing you in Credentials saying, I know him.

He's a really great guy. He's, he's not just to me, but when you see, when I saw you interacting with everybody else, that's really more important. It's not like you're a suck up to like the big guys, like you just were nice to anyone that was there. It didn't matter if they, if you thought they were above you or below you.

Like you just were yourself, which, you know, really carries people a long way, actually, I think.

[00:46:48] Dr. Jesse Allert: well, you, you challenge yourself in, in every, uh, in multiple aspects of life, athletic and career wise. I mean, you know, I, this is my first podcast. So I said, I turned off the camera. I said, I got to get rid of the garbage bags in the back of the car. Up here. So I, I can, you know, fake it till I make it on a podcast here.

Um,

[00:47:09] Dr. Sam Rhee: You've made it really well for eight years. I mean, you're, you're, so now what are you going to do for your next decade of, um, your career at this point? What are your goals? What do you want to do? What, where, what are your aspirations? Um, what, what's important to you at this point? I

[00:47:27] Dr. Jesse Allert: you know, I, I'm in a unique spot because I've been in one job since, uh, since I came out of fellowship, this with two people that I've known since residency. Um, and it's always interesting. I don't know what's on the other side of the, you know, if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence for some of these situations.

And, um, and the insurance landscape is constantly changing. Um, Um, um, and so, you know, all that being said, you know, you, you've been on the side of administration and I don't really have any of these, uh, goals at the moment. I kind of want to see what opportunities come my way, but for me, it's kind of, I do, um, have to look intrinsically sometimes and say, is my balance, uh, you know, good and my kids getting older and maybe.

Uh, playing more sports or becoming more involved. And for me, you know, I, like most doctors, don't like paperwork. So I just sucked it up and hired a scribe. Um, you know, four years ago and that has like changed my life and made my life easier because I don't go home stressed with all these undo, undone notes.

And so hiring a good physician assistant and just being around good people that can help you. If I have a trauma case and I have something else that they, my two partners will help me or, or sort of help, you know, take the case if I have to run somewhere. And so, um, it all comes down to surrounding yourself with, uh, with, with good people that can help you out and a good team.

So. I'm sure that I can develop a better team and maybe, um, and, and, and be better at those things, but yeah. So,

[00:49:02] Dr. Sam Rhee: I think you're, uh, I, I liken you, I would imagine you're like someone who has gotten out of their rookie contract. You're approaching free agency at this point. You're not, uh, you're not a max player yet. Like, uh, you know, who's, you know, 15 or years into the business, but you're very desirable, like you're, you're someone who I would say a lot of, you know, if you, if we were to use the pro sports, uh, analogy, like they would want to sign you at this point.

Like You have a lot of value. You, you can bring a lot to the table. Um, so I'm sure you have a lot

[00:49:36] Dr. Jesse Allert: up. I'll, I'll come on your podcast any day of the week. Sam, you, you, you, I, you know, I, I I appreciate that, especially, you know, coming from you and, uh, um, um, yeah, so I mean, it's, it's nice. It's, I, I, I, I, I think I'm in a good position when I came out TCNJ and I. Um, and I, and I loved college. I, I remember interviewing from medical school in New York and somebody had never heard of TCNJ.

So it's, it's, uh, you know, it's an honor to be talking to a Columbia, you know, grad stuff and a, and a, and a Duke guy. And, uh, um, and so, you know. Yeah, I guess we'll see what happens in the next five to ten years. I do think I'm in a good spot and I appreciate

[00:50:23] Dr. Sam Rhee: That's the funny thing about all these names. It's like, none of it means Jack, like Jack squat at this point. It's like, like, how good are you as a surgeon? What kind of experience have you had? Like, what are you like in the OR? And I have, and so, um, like you said, it's important to be humble. It really doesn't matter.

Where you, where you've been, it's what you've accomplished, where you're going, and what your plans are, and like you said, I've seen you when, what, you were a resident, and, and, uh, then you left to come, to be a fellow, and then you came back to Jersey, and, and seeing you now, like, in the prime of your career, it's, it's, you are such, you've been so steady, and productive, and focused on your success, And it's amazing because that really hasn't changed you.

I, I I'm talking to you now. And it's like I'm talking to a mature Jesse Allert that has just really sort of grown over the past eight years, not, not a nose in the air Jesse Allert, not a, I'm a big shot Jesse Allert, not a, you know, look at me I.

[00:51:30] Dr. Jesse Allert: I credit that to being raised by a nurse. No one better doctor in line than a good doctor. Well, it helps to

[00:51:37] Dr. Sam Rhee: So, and I really look forward to like what you're going to do because I, I can see the wheels turning in terms of what you might want to, to, to accomplish or, or, or build or, Or, um, challenge yourself with in the future. And so that's, that's, uh, that's very cool. And like I said, if, if, if there are people out there that want to.

become successful. I think there are a lot worse people they could emulate than you in terms of, of, of what you've done. And you made it look easy. Let me, let me put it this way. I know it wasn't easy. I know all those nights on call. I know, you know, your fellowship. I know starting out in practice your first couple of years, like it's a grind.

And yet you have made it look pretty effortless, which shows you just how talented you are, because, you I mean, I have a lot of scars mentally from all of, from all of those experiences, and you look like you've come through pretty, pretty smooth with that. So, so, that, that's very admirable.

[00:52:33] Dr. Jesse Allert: you know, people that have been around for a few decades. So,

[00:52:38] Dr. Sam Rhee: All right.

[00:52:40] Dr. Jesse Allert: So I appreciate that.

[00:52:41] Dr. Sam Rhee: Well, Jess, uh, enjoy your kids also. I would say six and three are pretty special. It's a pretty special time. I know you're into sports. What are, what kind of sports are they doing right now for you?

[00:52:51] Dr. Jesse Allert: Uh, soccer and, um, and, and dancing and baseball. So, which is funny. So yeah, I'm trying to get them into swimming or basketball. So yeah.

[00:53:02] Dr. Sam Rhee: Okay, that's really

[00:53:05] Dr. Jesse Allert: not much, not quite the carousel like, uh, some other people have with driving their kids around. Like, like, you know, like, you know, better than I do. You're the parent thing.

I

[00:53:17] Dr. Sam Rhee: that. So, Jess, it's been awesome. Thank you so much. Um, I look forward to seeing you in person around soon. And, uh, like I said, um, Restoration Orthopedics. You're, uh, 113 West Essex Street, Suite 201 Maywood, New Jersey. Um, shoulder, like, sports, trauma, reconstruction, arthroplasty.

Like if I, if I, I hope I never need surgery ever in my life, but if I ever have a problem, you're the first person I'm going to be talking to about it.

[00:53:50] Dr. Jesse Allert: appreciate the time. Appreciate the kind words. Thanks so much for having me, Sam.

[00:53:54] Dr. Sam Rhee: All right. Thank you so much, Jess.