S05E101: Inside the World of Investment Banking: How Finance Careers Are Decided in College

The secretive world of Wall Street recruitment has always fascinated outsiders – but few understand just how early the talent pipeline begins. Host Sam Rhee chats with his daughter, Sasha Rhee, about her journey and experiences in securing a summer internship at an investment banking firm. Sasha, a sophomore at Duke University, walks us through the intensive networking process, the technical preparation, and the strategic self-marketing needed to stand out in a sea of qualified candidates.

She also compares investment banking with asset management, discusses the rigorous interview process, and emphasizes the value of genuine interest and soft skills. The episode highlights the importance of making early career decisions and the challenges that come with them, providing a detailed look into the competitive world of investment banking from the perspective of a young aspirant.

Most tellingly, Sasha reflects that the grueling process serves as its own filter: "If you don't like recruiting, you're not going to make it in banking."

Whether you're considering a career in finance, parenting a college student, or simply curious about how Wall Street shapes its next generation, this conversation offers valuable insights into an often opaque world where career trajectories are determined remarkably early. Subscribe now to hear more thought-provoking discussions at the intersection of career, family, and personal growth.

#InvestmentBanking #FinanceCareers #CollegeToCareer #FinanceInternship #CareerAdvice #BankingJobs #FinanceCommunity #WallStreetLife #CareerGoals #BotoxAndBurpees

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S05E101: Inside the World of Investment Banking: How Finance Careers Are Decided in College

[00:00:00]

Sam Rhee: Welcome back to Botox and Burpees. I'm your host, Dr.

Sam Rhee. I'm here with my

regular guest star, Sasha Rhee. And today we're going to talk a little bit about her personal experience, about her interest in investment banking.

She recently got a summer internship at a elite boutique investment firm, investment banking firm. And when she detailed to me what it took to get to that point, it really surprised me for a couple of reasons.

One is It was really fast. She's only a sophomore in college and what she had to do to get from there to here has already probably determined in a great deal in terms of her future first job in her career. And I wanted people to know that, um, these are things that you have to sort of look out for super early.

The other thing is, is I knew very little about investment banking and the whole job firm hiring process. And I thought it was so interesting. Um, [00:01:00] Where the titans of finance are, um, how they're created and, and, um, how they're shaped. And so I wanted to talk to Sasha a little bit about her experiences and, uh, see, you know, how these finance bros, uh, become finance bros.

So, uh, first of all, welcome again, Sasha. Yeah. You're a sophomore now at Duke. Uh, and you just declared your major in economics, right?

Sasha Rhee: Yes, two weeks ago. I signed my job offer for summer 2026 before I declared my major.

Sam Rhee: Right, so you actually knew where you probably were going to be working at after you graduate school before you even declared your major as a sophomore, which blew my mind because As a pre med, I didn't know, obviously, where I was going to medical school until very late into my almost senior year.

And most people actually take a year off after their senior year to sort of prep to apply to medical school. But, um, for you, you already know where you're going to be working after you graduate, most likely.

Sasha Rhee: If I do a good job, yes, summer 2026.

Sam Rhee: Okay, so [00:02:00] let's talk a little bit about investment banking, this really weird, esoteric world that I have no, uh, knowledge of.

Um, what made you decide Uh, you know, that this was something that finance and investment banking was something you're interested in.

Sasha Rhee: So, when I got to Duke, I joined our business society on campus, Scale and Coin. We, it's like, also I guess kind of symbolic of finance recruiting. Scale does the first info session for incoming freshmen, like the Sunday before classes start.

So you start. like before you go to your first ever class, the college student, um, I joined scale. I went through their new membership education process, which introduced me to stock pitch, a consulting case, a tech case, really all things you can do in the spheres of. Businessy, entrepreneurship type of industries.

And I realized that finance is super, super big. I went into Duke thinking I wanted to go to law school, but you know, mom said like, Oh, maybe like work for a couple of years out of [00:03:00] it. And her experience in finance, she said that she thinks my soft skills would be a good fit. So I learned a little bit about investment banking.

It's a pretty big buzzword at Duke. A lot of Duke kids go into banking in New York City.

Sam Rhee: Everyone just talks about IBanking all the time. IB,

Sasha Rhee: yes. And

Sam Rhee: I don't even know what it is, and I say IB.

Sasha Rhee: Yeah, so that's kind of how I got introduced to it. I spoke to a lot of seniors that wanted to, like, that were going into a post grad.

I actually wanted to, like, be unique and different, and like, I actually did it. Want to like IB in a way because I didn't know if I wanted to do it and I felt like oh Everyone's doing it just cause like does anyone actually know what it is like things like that But I did more research I joined like a career fighting society fellowship things like that Um, I spoke to a lot of people because I really thought I would go into asset management instead like mom But I realized that banking is a really great place to start your career.

Sam Rhee: Okay, so would you recommend that people? Uh, who have any interest in business, find their school's business fraternity and be a part of it or some similar organization?

Sasha Rhee: I think so. I think it [00:04:00] gets you, I think it exposes you to a lot of things early on. Like, I thought actually when I joined Skill that I wanted to do consulting at first and then I did the consulting case and realized I like actually like numbers and like diving into a business instead of like more theoretical conceptual stuff.

So I do think it exposes you very well and honestly. It wasn't even in the membership education process. It was like meeting upperclassmen who had done their junior summer internships who are returning post grad because skill has a lot of variety and we have people that go into sales and trading, private equity, IB.

And we have people that decide to go to like, you know, grad school for like other things like law school, for instance. And I think that exposure is very, very helpful as a freshman since recruiting timelines are so early.

Sam Rhee: So what is the difference between asset management and investment banking?

Sasha Rhee: Yeah, I can break it in the spheres a little bit.

So, banking essentially, it's called like the sell, so you have the sell side and you have the buy side in finance. Again, I'm not a seasoned professional, I am a sophomore in college, but from what I understand, you have the sell side and the buy side. The sell side essentially is where, like, you have [00:05:00] people who have money and people who need money, and bankers are in the middle of it.

So they facilitate, like, M& A, like mergers and acquisitions, they facilitate those transactions between companies of any size.

Sam Rhee: And they make money off of it.

Sasha Rhee: And they make money off of it. So you basically get like that fee almost of like doing a transaction. And so like, that's why like everyone during COVID was like, Oh my God, no one's doing M& A activity.

It's super slow. Banks are, you know, having trouble. And then you see M& A with their own banks, like UBS and Credit Suisse, I think, things like that. That's the buy side. Which is more is direct investing opportunity. That's like private equity where you're directly investing into private companies, usually doing a leveraged buyout strategy.

You're buying them and you're building them and you're selling them. I'd like five years.

Like CrossFit is owned by a private equity firm.

Sam Rhee: Right.

Sasha Rhee: And then asset management is kind of more on the buy side where like, there's a lot of different things you can do in asset management. You can be on the client side and work with clients.

Wealth management is a type of asset management, but it's mostly just like. Doing portfolios based on a certain strategy or you're using [00:06:00] a certain index like the S& P 500 or the Dow Jones But those are the two differences and going out of college. There are a lot more sell side banking opportunities Then it's pretty hard to go directly into the buy side.

It's straight into private equity but more and more firms are opening up those opportunities than there were Like five years ago.

Sam Rhee: So like a hedge fund, what is that? That's my side. Okay. So

Sasha Rhee: they're directly investing in like usually like some sort of whatever their strategy is like long short, like they're, you know what I mean?

Like,

Sam Rhee: so that's an asset management type of category. Yes.

Sasha Rhee: But it's just a more aggressive type versus you could have like mutual funds and like what retirement portfolio is in. Those are technically portfolios that would also fall under like asset management. So as a management, otherwise known as investment management is much broader.

Sam Rhee: I see. Okay. So then. What are the soft skills that you have strengths in that sort of help you in this kind of endeavor?

Sasha Rhee: I think a lot of people, so I did a lot, so first of all, I did a lot of networking calls. I sent out 140 emails.

Sam Rhee: How did you know to do this?

Sasha Rhee: Through [00:07:00] like scale. So basically the whole process if you want to recruit is that In order to get a first round interview, you need to network at these places.

Basically, you want to reach out to alumni or people from your high school or like mutual friends or family friends.

Sam Rhee: Any connections.

Sasha Rhee: Any connections you can have to tap into and you basically want to talk to them. You want to show an interest in the firm and their career. You want to, it's called like a coffee chat, basically.

Sam Rhee: And when did you start doing this?

Sasha Rhee: And I started reaching out like September, October of my, like October of my fall sophomore semester.

Sam Rhee: So a couple of months ago, you started just like contacting everybody. Yes.

Sasha Rhee: Everyone across all different firms, casting a really wide net, both buy side and sell side. I recruited for both and.

Essentially, like, that's one of the soft skills is that's like, that's basically the first test and like the hurdle is that because if you have a good coffee chat and they really like you or they think that it's

Sam Rhee: a coffee chat,

Sasha Rhee: the networking call, it's basically like a 20, 30 minute networking call where it's like you ask them about their journey.

Why did they choose to [00:08:00] work at this firm? Why this group within this firm? Why banking? Why private equity? Whatever. Out of

Sam Rhee: 140. How many? Okay. Yes. Well, I'll talk to you.

Sasha Rhee: I got it. 80 responses. Oh my God. Which is a really good hit rate. I obviously like, I think there were like 10 maybe that responded and then we never, they ended up like not responding or whatever.

'cause they're super busy

Sam Rhee: so you kept up 80 coffee chats.

Sasha Rhee: But I also got that in a significantly good hit rate. I must say a lot of kids at Duke have like a 20 to 30% hit rate. My hit rate was really good, partially because one Duke alone were very active. So that's very helpful. But also through my. career finance society fellowship.

Um, if I put like KFS fellow reaching out in the subject line, that was very helpful because they had that KFS connection.

Sam Rhee: So people should look for Connections with these people.

Sasha Rhee: Or like groups. Like even if I put like skill and coin, like I had a skill and coin mentor reached out to him, like things like that, where it's like more likely than just like Dukes into reaching out, but even then, if you put Dukes into reaching out, if they are a Duke alone, they're most likely going to respond.

And that's. [00:09:00] The important thing about going to a school like Duke, where you have a lot of representation in finance, because there's probably a Duke alum at every single firm on Wall Street.

Sam Rhee: Okay, but then if I'm a student at, say, my local state college, I'm sort of behind the eight ball when it comes to this, because my alumni network maybe is not as active, um, I don't You know, if I don't have other connections or know people in it, then I'm starting with harder.

Yeah. Okay. It's

Sasha Rhee: harder to break through and that's what they call in finance target and non target schools. It can change like there are boutiques out there whose target they only have like four target schools for instance Like and especially like Duke, we still don't have an undergraduate business school.

So Ross is very popular Indiana Kelly You know schools like UChicago, whatever like things like that. Yeah, Wharton Obviously like things like that are all those are basically target versus non target schools Duke is still a target school for most firms, but It also kind of is like a cycle in the sense where a lot of recruiting and like firms will visit my campus [00:10:00] They're probably not visiting like a local state schools campus that also is driven from the top down usually where if there's like MDs or like directors or

Sam Rhee: Managing director.

Yeah, like

Sasha Rhee: high up in The firm, a lot of them, if they want to do, for instance, will want to make trips down to do it's almost

Sam Rhee: unfair in some sense, like it's self perpetuating. So you have all these like muckety mucks who are big shots. Yeah. And then they kind of pull from their same background. Like I went to,

Sasha Rhee: however, I will say that there are.

Some firms are unexpectedly of schools that you wouldn't necessarily think like they don't have an undergrad business school or things like that And that's also top down So it is, you know, like and it is pot very possible and I think that one of the things that makes it more possible Depending on where like, you know, regardless of your school is these things called They're like diversity or like early recruiting programs, basically.

Sam Rhee: Oh, so they're looking to widen their net?

Sasha Rhee: And so I don't know how this will continue to develop with like the new administration's ban on DGuy. However, for instance, like where I'm working summer 2026, I did their sophomore woman's program [00:11:00] and that gave me an accelerated timeline. I had a first round much earlier than other people and had a final interview much earlier than other people.

Somehow

Sam Rhee: I don't think. This is going to be the norm in the future, but

Sasha Rhee: there are like these types of early recruitment programs where it's like they have a lot of firms will have like LGBT plus first college generally

Sam Rhee: basically take advantage of any opportunity you have

Sasha Rhee: and apply and cast a very, very.

Broad now.

Sam Rhee: Okay, so then you had these coffee chats and they were like video or in person? Uh, most

Sasha Rhee: of them were over the phone because that's easiest for like people in finance and a lot of people have to reschedule and You need to be very very flexible and kind of take whatever time they give you.

Sam Rhee: And what do you guys talk about in these things?

Sasha Rhee: Basically, you ask them, like, why they chose this, because basically, you also want to use the coffee chats so that if you do get a first, when you want them to like you, but then if you do get a first time interview, you can reference them and say, oh, like, this helps you basically distinguish the firms on Wall Street, because on paper, they all kind of look the same, but it's really when you talk to people, I think, is when you kind of get the, okay, [00:12:00] like, they do things a little bit differently than this, and they give you an insight into their everyday work as well.

Um, for instance, like my from that are working at summer 2026, they are, there's like bulge brackets and boutiques. Like we said, boutiques are like mostly strategic advisory, so they don't have a balance sheet themselves. They're solely giving advice as the middleman and that's what they're making their money on, whereas bulge brackets, the bigger banks, those are the ones with the balance sheets that can actually give money in a transaction.

I

Sam Rhee: see. So

Sasha Rhee: there's like one distinction, right? So

Sam Rhee: they're putting their own assets into play.

Sasha Rhee: And boutique culture can be very different than bulge bracket culture. Their analyst classes, they're smaller, things like that. And so that's something that you get through the coffee chat. And basically you just kind of ask them like why they chose this firm.

Also, there's different groups. So, you know, you could be like in a tech group, whatever you could be a healthcare group and be like, why did you choose this to like, what's it like, what's mentorship like, things like that, because it's still a two way, like people do emphasize recruiting is still a two way street.

You want [00:13:00] the firm to give you an offer, but also the firm wants you to take

Sam Rhee: So, what kind of questions would they ask you during these coffee chats? It's mostly

Sasha Rhee: you asking them questions and them like responding and you know, trying to keep a conversation. They will ask you like, tell me about yourself.

Sam Rhee: And what would you say?

Sasha Rhee: Well, so, it really varied on like, the vibe of the call, cause you do have like, that's the first question. Basically, I refinance interviews, tell me about yourself or walk me through your resume. Um, that one is a little bit longer, like a minute and a half, usually to a minute. If it's like a casual coffee chat, it's a little bit more like, um, so, you know, I'm interested in blah, blah, XYZ.

I'm involved in XYZ if they're a Duke alum. But I think that's

Sam Rhee: Probably have a memorized almost speech at that point. Yeah.

Sasha Rhee: CrossFit is actually my, tell me about yourself.

Sam Rhee: Oh, because it's something different, right?

Sasha Rhee: Yeah. A lot of people ate it up. I was like, Oh, my, like. Um, I wanted to go to law school, but I knew I had experienced business in my own personal life.

My parents invested in our local CrossFit gym a couple years ago, and that really, then I would spin that tail however I needed to for whatever position I was applying for.

Sam Rhee: Oh, so tricky.

Sasha Rhee: Yeah, and um, a lot of people were very interested in [00:14:00] that, I have to say. Yeah,

Sam Rhee: yeah, cause they're like, that's crazy, CrossFit, what is that?

To get

Sasha Rhee: into the Sophomore Women's Program for my now job,

Sam Rhee: they

Sasha Rhee: actually said, like, the first question to get into Women's Program was like, oh, um, what's like a business you think is doing Bad or really good and I said cross is doing really bad and she thought it was really interesting so I talked about the debt and all that and So, yeah I think that's also something is very important is lean into your interest and be genuine because these bankers do so many of these calls Right that they can kind of tell like who's really interested in who's like going through the motion,

Sam Rhee: right?

So you really have to make it legit. Yes and true to yourself. Yes And that, that's, wow. Well, you're welcome for But

Sasha Rhee: I know, seriously, shout out to

Sam Rhee: girls and guys. All right. So, um, so you get through that part of it. And then what's the next step? And I assume you take copious notes and record all Yeah.

Sasha Rhee: So I take, you take copious notes.

You have to send them a thank you email, you know, all that. Your resume also has to be polished before the hand, obviously, when you send it to them in the interim email.

Sam Rhee: Right. And you had resources from your business [00:15:00] fraternity who

Sasha Rhee: helped you

Sam Rhee: My

Sasha Rhee: fellowship. Polish all this stuff. And my mentors, and I'd ask them to read them over.

So that's what you do first semester of your sophomore. Yeah, so that fall you're just doing constantly coffee chats. You're going to the firm's info sessions when they're on your campus.

Sam Rhee: Yes,

Sasha Rhee: that's basically it.

Sam Rhee: Okay,

Sasha Rhee: then you most. Okay, so the earliest applications my year dropped mid December, which is crazy because usually just a couple

Sam Rhee: months ago.

Sasha Rhee: Yes, like and before that I don't always been like January 1st was the first possible date, but they started dropping mid December very, very early. Most firms dropped January 1st all the way to like, January 15th.

Sam Rhee: And these are for interviews for the internship for Summer 2026. So, a year

Sasha Rhee: and a half.

You're basically recruiting a year and a half in advance of when you'd actually hit the desk.

Sam Rhee: Okay, so everyone should know that if you go to college, you need to get your junior internship squared away

Sasha Rhee: By your sophomore spring.

Sam Rhee: By your sophomore spring.

Sasha Rhee: The latest people sign usually April, maybe into the summer.

Sam Rhee: Okay.

Sasha Rhee: Um, and this is mostly banking and Fiside. Asset management [00:16:00] And investment management is usually a little bit later into your sophomore, the summer between sophomore and junior year, and then consulting is. Like start of junior year.

Sam Rhee: So they open up their thing and

Sasha Rhee: and you apply basically and then it all depends on the firm then Again, if you do like diversity programs, you did a couple you got like an accelerated timeline most likely So you got like a first number for other people you get a first round the day after you apply like drop your resume or you could get a first round like I got I kept getting emails or first sounds like a month like a month after I applied and that's the

Sam Rhee: first round

Sasha Rhee: first on interview

Sam Rhee: like which is what

Sasha Rhee: most firms first Drowns, so my software woman's program was a technical first on interview, which is all technical questions, but it really depends Usually it's just like usually the first time is behavioral actually and it's more just like a fit

Sam Rhee: Is it an

Sasha Rhee: interview?

Sam Rhee: Is it like a video interview? Yeah,

Sasha Rhee: usually it's like on zoom. Yeah, and then You have to like if you pass that most firms have a super day then

Sam Rhee: yes

Sasha Rhee: Which is where some fly you out in person. Mine was in person for a couple And that's more like sometimes [00:17:00] technical sometimes behavioral. They'll do a mix.

Sometimes that's very much like a Once you get the super day, if you really lock in like you can get the job because like your foot's basically halfway in the door, you just need to like do well, but that's how it works. Most firms resume drop and then either first round on zoom usually and then a super day or some people do or some firms do higher view to super day.

A higher view is a virtual video interview, but it's just you talking to the camera.

Sam Rhee: Oh, higher view. Yes, like a higher view video. I've saw that. So this is a key. So I saw this in an article in Business Insider, where there was a Goldman Sachs partner, Eric Jordan, who broke down this Superday interview process for their firm, the, I mean, is it wrong to call them vampire squids, these guys?

But, uh, that's really bad, right? That's just like, not nice.

Sasha Rhee: I'm a finance professional, not that. I'm

Sam Rhee: not, so I guess I can say anything I want. Uh, so he basically said, so, you know, uh, they talk about Superdays and that's the industry term for these interview events that take the That take place at the end of the recruiting [00:18:00] process for the 2026 internships this year for the summer.

And like they said, you submit a formal application at work and then complete some sort of intro assessment, which you mentioned. And

Sasha Rhee: Goldman has a HireVue.

Sam Rhee: Yeah, HireVue video, right. So competitive. So they mentioned in this article that, um, there are like for the 2024 programs, they got 315, 000 applications for internships across their bank globally, and less than 1 percent were chosen.

And so this is. So competitive.

Sasha Rhee: I will say also my perspective on it is a little bit more biased and limited. Like I think everyone at Duke gets a banking job if you really put in the work. That is not a privilege that is granted to clearly like 99 percent of, you know, like the other applicants.

Sam Rhee: So now when Now the advice that they get, that this guy gives for his super days, I mean obviously just getting to the super day as you just mentioned.

Is a

Sasha Rhee: feat in itself and an accomplishment in my [00:19:00] opinion.

Sam Rhee: Right, so how many super days do most people get to attend?

Sasha Rhee: Some people, a lot of Duke alums that I spoke to when I was like, oh buy this firm, they were like, it's the only one that gave me an offer. Very realistic. That happens to a lot of people.

Sam Rhee: Well, you get just one opportunity to go to a super day. Yeah,

Sasha Rhee: I got a couple super days. Mine, I think I got six, maybe.

Sam Rhee: And you took all of them? Oh, so how many? Some I

Sasha Rhee: got after I signed. And I said

Sam Rhee: no. Oh, so once you chose?

Sasha Rhee: Mine, yeah. When you're committed

Sam Rhee: to an internship. Yeah. Okay.

Sasha Rhee: Because you sign your offer letter, you know, you don't want to renege.

Like, finance is a super small world. You need to also be sure, and timing is also a difficult part, I think, of the recruiting process. I knew that the Fermi's I really wanted to work on so that was like a no brainer for me I do think that for a lot of other people it's either you see one of two things like Some people will get an offer super early and they're hesitant because their other processes haven't finished wrapping up and they can't let go of those ones But they're also afraid to go.

Oh my gosh, if I don't take this now, but I get it You know, like it's don't

Sam Rhee: withdraw that opportunity. You think

Sasha Rhee: [00:20:00] like I've seen people who will like You know, they will reject a firm's offer to continue to recruit, hoping that the firm that they want, you know what I mean, will give them an offer later on.

Because not all, it's not like college where you get to collect all, I wish it was, where you get to like collect all your offers and submit one, you know what I mean, pick one.

Sam Rhee: They're rolling.

Sasha Rhee: Yes. And like, all, most firms will give you four, like, The most will be a week to decide. Most give like three to four days now.

Sam Rhee: Now there's a game that these firms are playing. So they, if they're a weaker firm, maybe they offer early or maybe not weaker, but you know, small. I don't know. Or they,

Sasha Rhee: it's very much like dependent on the firm. But I also think like a lot of it is just like how the firm operates as well. Like maybe they just have a different.

HR system, you know, like there's many many factors that go in but every firm operates on its own Timeline and so that is also something that can stress a lot of kids out because you you know Like it is like [00:21:00] recruiting is stressful like to continue to do the process like when I signed I was like, this is the right

Sam Rhee: choice No, no, I like knew

Sasha Rhee: it was our choice.

I was like so relieved You know, you're like, yeah, but some people don't get that feeling or some people get caught up in the what ifs it's very much like This is also when you need to stay true to yourself, I think, and that's what the coffee chats and all the research and work that you put in,

Sam Rhee: that's

Sasha Rhee: when they come into play.

Sam Rhee: How about Goldman Sachs? They're pretty late in terms of what they offer, give offers, right? Compared to the others.

Sasha Rhee: Um, no, they're kind of in the midst of that more. I think they gave offers like last week ish.

Sam Rhee: Okay, but you committed how long ago? I

Sasha Rhee: committed first week of February, second week of February.

So like

Sam Rhee: a couple weeks ago.

Sasha Rhee: Mm

Sam Rhee: hmm. Okay, so now he says in this article that, People do use study guides containing potential interview questions for Super Day.

Sasha Rhee: Oh, yeah, if you're a kid you have you memorize the MNI 400 guide. It's 400 questions that you will ever need for an investment banking interview.

You don't memorize all 400 because that includes the basic and advanced sections and it includes like sections you don't always need but there are a

Sam Rhee: lot of questions that you memorize out of [00:22:00] this.

Sasha Rhee: I, the memory is like six, like eight sections, like six basic and then two advanced, so. How

Sam Rhee: many questions is that?

Sasha Rhee: Gotta be like half maybe.

Sam Rhee: 200 questions?

Sasha Rhee: Maybe 150, 200. I made flashcards, I have the flashcards in my room. What is this? It's basically the technical guide that you need. It, it comes up with, like, it has accounting, valuation, DCF, LBO, merger model, and it's basically all the questions that, it's basically a baseline and a foundation.

It's your holy grail if you're going into banking because it, studying that exposes you to the concepts themselves that you may get asked in an interview.

Sam Rhee: Uh, give me one.

Sasha Rhee: DCF is literally one that everyone should know if you're going into banking.

Sam Rhee: What's a DCF?

Sasha Rhee: Discounted Cash Flow Analysis. You basically, like, that's like something that bankers use all the time.

Sam Rhee: And so give me the two sentence start, but don't keep going, but just give me the first sentences that you would say for them like that.

Sasha Rhee: So like a discounted cash loan house, a DCF is an intrinsic. Valuation method where you value a company based on the present value of its future. Oh my god, alright,

Sam Rhee: I'm falling asleep already.

Sorry.

Sasha Rhee: That wasn't even the first step, that was me explaining what it all means. I don't

Sam Rhee: [00:23:00] care at all.

Sasha Rhee: This is like when he reads his research headlines to me from his residency days. This

Sam Rhee: is so ridiculous. Okay, so, um, sorry, I'm just really not

Sasha Rhee: Hashtag Austeo. Something something.

Sam Rhee: Okay, so, um And then, uh, it says that some of the more, uh, specialized, uh, businesses, like derivatives or so forth, might be very technical, so they might ask more math or Hedge

Sasha Rhee: funds are very technical, too.

Sam Rhee: Oh, is that right? So, might they ask you math questions?

Sasha Rhee: Derivatives will maybe ask you math questions. If you're going into quantitative finance, like quant, which is a whole different aspect, that's all math, basically. Quant, you're literally I think basically quantum, what you're doing is like, you're using math to predict the market.

Sam Rhee: So those

Sasha Rhee: are like,

Sam Rhee: So they'll just like, ask you math questions?

Sasha Rhee: Some of the quantum kids I know are the smartest kids that I know at Duke. But um,

Sam Rhee: More than 2 plus 2 is 4 type of stuff? Obviously.

Sasha Rhee: But the hedge, it also depends on what the actual role is. Hedge funds, since they're so direct in investing, and it's kids that really want to be in that direct investing seat, they'll ask you to pitch like [00:24:00] 10 stocks in an interview, for instance.

Oh. They'll, yeah, they'll ask you to like, give me a long short, things like that. Asking. AM might think more like, how would you handle a situation with a client? There's very, there are behavioral questions, market based questions, and technical questions.

Sam Rhee: So this is all sort of prerequisite. Like, and even before you get here, obviously you need to have done well your first year.

Sasha Rhee: Yeah, good grade. You have a good GPA above like 8.

Sam Rhee: Right, and then like you, and you've studied all this stuff.

Sasha Rhee: And extracurriculars. You need to build up your resume.

Sam Rhee: Alright, so they want to look at all that too. Yeah. So this is all prerequisite before you even like get to this point. Like, You all of these things have to be in place

Sasha Rhee: before you even drop your resume.

Sam Rhee: Okay, so, um, They suggest if you got to this point that what you really need is a hook

Sasha Rhee: Yes,

Sam Rhee: what is a hook?

Sasha Rhee: My hook is crossfit.

Sam Rhee: Is that really right man? You've been milking this topic all it's worth

Sasha Rhee: guys I've gotten so many questions. It's my first interest on my resume They look at me and they're like you but that's kind of like the thing is [00:25:00] that They want you, like, I think he says in the article, you could talk about literally anything, as long as you're passionate about it, because they don't care what you're talking about, as long as it depends, they just want to see what traits are coming through in the interview.

Right. When I talk about CrossFit, a lot of traits that come through, humility, my ability to push through things, my resume. So it's a

Sam Rhee: prism for you.

Sasha Rhee: Yes, my resume, like, you really want to dig deep into what skills you bring to the table. A lot of mine, like, my biggest strength, I would say, is like, My ability to be adaptive and connect with clients on a professional level.

It's something that was unique because I sell ads at our newspaper at Duke and not many sophomores are in a sales position. A lot of people loved that too, like loved that activity on my resume. Shout out to my boss. I love my boss. But like that job, actually, surprisingly real people in more than my corporate finance internship from this past summer, things like that, where it's just like, And I think, honestly, some people's hook is just being a super earnest and genuine person during the interview.

I see. It really much is just, like, you don't want to, they always say, like, we don't want, like, a finance [00:26:00] robot. All bankers will tell you that you can learn the technical skills on the job. No matter what you do in college, whether you go to an undergrad business school or not, you are not, never going to be able to simulate what it's truly like to be on the job.

Mm hmm. But they can't teach soft skills.

Sam Rhee: Right.

Sasha Rhee: And so that's something that they, like, you could get a technical question wrong in an interview. Most likely still move on to the next round if everything else is great. If you had a behavioral question wrong, it, you know, digs deeper and more of like, who are you?

Like, could I sit next? Because it's, the question is, could I sit next to you when we're in the trenches at 2 a. m. Right. Working together.

Sam Rhee: That's what they said here. And so it seems like they prefer or gravitate towards student athletes. I guess to a certain degree because they are good at sports. They were better than other people.

It's competitive situation. A

Sasha Rhee: lot of football and lacrosse. Male players go into banking you do

Sam Rhee: they need dedication and a drive in sport. And so they, so a lot of bankers feel like that translates into and

Sasha Rhee: time management being a student athlete,

Sam Rhee: right? So is that something that you think is [00:27:00] helpful or at least a hook that these students have?

Sasha Rhee: I mean, obviously if you're a student athlete, especially at a school like Duke, you know, top D one school, you obviously put in an insane number of hours. You're very skilled. It's you know what it's like to be super, super good at something top of your game. And you know what it's like to stay there. I think that is like definitely a hook.

I mean, you could even talk about like, like in CrossFit, like people really enjoy that they really enjoy hearing from my job at the Chronicle, the newspaper. And I think that's because like, that's tangible real world experience that I can talk about, they love hearing about how I sell ads to our local pliable owner 'cause of what it shows.

Sam Rhee: So when you got the offer, was that your first offer?

Sasha Rhee: No.

Sam Rhee: Okay. So how many did you get before that?

Sasha Rhee: Um, I got a couple, I can't remember exactly how many. Two, maybe three.

Sam Rhee: And you passed on three before you took this one? The one you Uh, I passed,

Sasha Rhee: I passed on, yeah, I passed on two or three. Yeah.

Sam Rhee: And why'd you pass on them?

Sasha Rhee: Uh, very different reasons. I think I was. Very [00:28:00] grateful to the first thing out of the first one is always super super hard because you have that fear of like

Sam Rhee: Will you get any? Yeah, like what

Sasha Rhee: if I don't get any more and then I look stupid,

Sam Rhee: right?

Sasha Rhee: Ultimately, I think it really came down to like what was important to me So I'm a generalist at my summer 2026 being a generalist means that you are not industry specific The way that a lot of these banks work are you have a healthcare group?

You have a TMT technology media Like telecommunications, industrials, like groups that you wouldn't really know actually like you also need to research this if you want to go to banking, like what groups you want to do. Right. Leverage finance, and it depends firm to firm.

And so I think for me like being a generalist means that I get to work across all Industries and also do M& A and restructuring activity across all these industries.

And I didn't recruit for restructuring, which is where you work with companies like that are about to go bankrupt because those technical questions are even harder. Like if you have the M& I 400 as calc AB, restructuring is like calc [00:29:00] BC and multi, like that's a whole nother level of prep.

Sam Rhee: Wow.

Sasha Rhee: And so, but the chance to be able to do restructuring and explore and really have all my bases covered, that's truly why you go into banking, I think, is because you want that opportunity.

Um, and that was something that really spoke to me, but I also think, like, being a boutique actually, like, you meet so many people through the interview process. And once you get the offer, so many people will reach out to you from whatever firm. And I think that's also about, like, the connection. Like, who do you think's really invested in you in the process?

That's when the two way street comes around, I think. Um, and being in a boutique, you are in, like, a smaller analyst class, um, and being a strategic advisory firm, you also end up Yeah, like I think it's a different type of work because you solely win like you don't win because you have money on your balance sheet partially you win because like you win clients because of the Like long relationships you've been building and because you're like thoughtful advice is good.

Sam Rhee: I see. So that fit you personally.

Sasha Rhee: Yeah, and I honestly going into it, I actually thought I wanted a bulge bracket. I didn't. [00:30:00] What's that? Uh, like Goldman Sachs, like the ones that have balance sheets. Oh. The bigger, the bigger firm.

Sam Rhee: So bulge bracket means like they're bulging with money.

Sasha Rhee: I guess.

Sam Rhee: Okay.

Sasha Rhee: You have like BB and Boutique.

I actually, so, okay. Actually, I went in thinking I was going to go into the buy side. I'm doing private credit this summer and I had recruited for my sophomore summer internship beforehand. And I thought private credit was really interesting. Um, I recruited for it, but you know, some of the firms I wanted, I didn't get, or I also didn't really know then.

And that caused me to do some self reflection, like, Oh, like I actually want to start in private credit because it's a pretty specific skill set. Um, and so I think that was also something that was like, And so I went in totally thinking that I wasn't going to enter my boutique or do banking. I thought I was going to do private credit or enter a public bracket.

Sam Rhee: Did you know, so did having your sophomore internship in hand help you in terms of recruiting for your junior? I think it helped

Sasha Rhee: me. I got a lot of interviews, like first rounds especially, and I think It helped me partially because the place that I'm working at this summer has a great name [00:31:00] and has been in a major player in the private credit industry and had a major acquisition during my interview process.

So I think having that they kind of knew like, oh, like she must have gone through an intensive interview process for them.

Sam Rhee: So you haven't even done your sophomore summer internship yet and yet.

Sasha Rhee: It did help a lot, I think.

Sam Rhee: Awesome. Yeah. And so, I don't want to go back and like, go through how it took to get your sophomore, uh, summer internship, but like

Sasha Rhee: I think, yeah, I think the fact that it was a big need, cause sophomore summer internships are also hard to come by.

Like, Selva, I know a lot of people that sign their sophomore summer internship after they sign their junior summer. It is not necessarily a needed at all. Oh, I see. Like, you do not need it, like they, cause they understand how early the timelines are. I see. I just happen to sign, and I do think that helped me get my foot in the door.

It also helped me get my foot in the door at a lot of private credit firms because they, you know what I mean? They knew I was, they, I knew, they,

Sam Rhee: they knew you had an interest in it. And

Sasha Rhee: honestly, they knew that I knew what it was. A lot of people recruit for, like, bystanders have no idea what they're doing, essentially, and what they're recruiting for because you pass [00:32:00] such a wide net.

I didn't think it was helpful, which I do think was helpful. And I think that also forced me to get a head start on my technical question prep.

Sam Rhee: Oh, because you had already prepped for your sophomore. Yeah, a lot

Sasha Rhee: of people start technical prep. In like December and then focus on networking first. I kind of did both simultaneously because I was interviewing for my sophomore summer internship.

But, I know so many people that, you know, like don't know, like, have a sophomore summer internship, but it's totally fine.

Sam Rhee: Did everyone who's in your friend group or who's interested in to do exactly what you did or So, are you one of the More try hard people that you know?

Sasha Rhee: No, I am definitely not a finance hard o.

I have some friends that are.

Sam Rhee: So there are others who tried even harder than you about all this stuff? And worked even harder than you on

Sasha Rhee: this? Yeah, some people will send out like 200 emails. Who knows? Some people will, like, Like, well, like, I'm not even in our investment club at Duke. I know people that are.

They're doing stuff just for fun on the week. Like, you know what I mean? Like, things like that.

Sam Rhee: So they're just, like, even more hardcore than you are about this.

Sasha Rhee: Especially the kids, I think, that go into quant and, like, hedge funds because those [00:33:00] are such few and Like, hedge funds are such few and limited opportunities, like, far and few.

Sam Rhee: Why do people You

Sasha Rhee: know those kids want that.

Sam Rhee: So these are people who just love doing this stuff.

Sasha Rhee: Yeah, they love Like, I'm I asked one of my friends in my business, right, who's going into hedge fund. I was like, Do you wake up and think about, like, Stocks and he was like, yes, I was like, oh, so I'm not supposed to go to it.

I think I need some foundations, which is also why a lot of people go into banking. They want to build that foundation. A lot of it is just learning how to be in an administrative professional setting. I see.

Sam Rhee: Okay. So what do you wish you had known before you started this whole process that would have made things better for you?

Sasha Rhee: I wish I hadn't been so in enormously stressed Like I think that

Sam Rhee: it sounds stressful just it is it

Sasha Rhee: is the most stressful thing i've done in my life Like I think it was super stressful and also especially to places like duke. It's like an echo chamber Everyone's trying to figure out. Oh did this firm send out round ones?

Who's around one like who's a super dead like who got an offer like who signed like? You know, it's a college process, but like way more intense because this is [00:34:00] your future and your job. Right. And you have to do so much immense self reflection that I wish I did a little bit more self reflection before I kicked it off.

Thinking about, what do I truly want?

Sam Rhee: But who knows at that age?

Sasha Rhee: Exactly. But that's why I think do as many calls as you can. Even if they might seem tedious or irritating or, oh my god, like it's a time suck, it is very helpful. And I think, fine, all I've learned is that finance is such a small Industry is, but like everyone knows everyone, everyone, you know what I mean?

And that's why I think even though a hundred and thirty nine of the calls that I did are not at the firm that I'm going to You, you know what I mean? Like I still built those connections.

Sam Rhee: And in the future we never know. Yeah,

Sasha Rhee: I still have an immense amount of respect for all the people that I called like just because I'm not going to their Firm or their firm didn't give me an offer doesn't mean that I hold any spite or whatever and I think that that's Also something I think you do a lot of growing up during the process.

And they

Sam Rhee: might remember you in the future.

Sasha Rhee: Exactly. And they might remember like what you did. We really liked your interview. Things like that. Like I think that that at the end of the [00:35:00] day, you also just need to think about like, what is the actual work that I'm doing? I think I was scared of banking for a while because I was like, Oh my God, it's something, you know, like freshman year was like very, very scared.

I knew nothing besides like it's a grind, but I think I ended up going into it because actually the work itself allows me to start so broad and like gain such a broad skill set. And I did a lot of self reflection and realized. I don't really know if there's an industry out there that I love. Like, do I love industrials?

Do I love healthcare? Like, I have no idea. Whereas other kids sometimes go in knowing like, like you get a lot of pre meds low key who start pre med at Duke, they decide that they don't, they want to do more like the, like the, uh, finance side of it. Yeah, the business side. And so then they want to go into like health care.

Sam Rhee: Yeah.

Sasha Rhee: Many people do that, or you people that go into tech groups. I just didn't really know if I wanted to do one thing because then you're only working with health care companies for your two years. So I think that also is something that. You need to actually think about like, it seems so far in the future, but it's really not like, can you actually do that?

Sam Rhee: What was the most disappointing or hardest thing you had to deal with?

Sasha Rhee: I [00:36:00] think that like when a firm doesn't want you or you get a rejection, especially if it's a firm that you really, really want.

Sam Rhee: That happened.

Sasha Rhee: Yeah, it happened with one firm on the buy side for me. That can be very difficult. And I think I had also achieved a lot of success during my recruiting process and got, if I'm being honest, I didn't get that many no's.

And so I do think that. You know that was difficult also because I I did their super day and got very very close and ended up not getting the offer But at the end of the day, like I think it's kind of the college process You kind of need to let go of it You need to focus on what's ahead of you and I am very I am very very satisfied and happy with how my recruiting process Went I think it couldn't have gone any better for me.

Sam Rhee: I think for someone like me I just keep thinking why did they not take me like what is it about me that I don't they don't lie

Sasha Rhee: I just realized that I think also that would be different if, for instance, like I ended up with a, like a, you know what I mean, like a firm that I didn't think I was going to or whatever, but I, the firm that I'm going to for summer, my junior summer, is a firm that I particularly chose for very, like, you know what I mean, for my specific reasons that I said before, and so I'm very [00:37:00] happy that I had also, also that option to choose.

It can be difficult if you pick where you're going because it was the only place that gave you an offer. That's very different. I do feel very privileged and blessed to have gotten the chance to pick. And really looked at my like options and I've had so like so many great friends out there, so many great options, but I think that the opportunity is something also that not everyone gets.

Sam Rhee: So what do you do now that you have that all set up for yourself? Do you just like party?

Sasha Rhee: No, I'm kidding. Wait a second. Like, I think still like I'm doing my sophomore summer internship. And I think what's great about going to the buy side for my sophomore summer doing private credit is that I get a glimpse into it.

I actually have no idea what the work will be. You know, like I, I know what the industry is. I know what work I should be doing, but I've never, you know, hit the desk before. So I think. You know, just continuing to learn, like Kind of preparing myself, but also yes, it obviously is a lot easier once like you kind of have a job lined up But I think it's just things like that like Really taking my sophomore summer to reflect like is this something that I would want to recruit for because you have to re recruit You know after banking unless you [00:38:00] want to stay in banking you a lot of people will do their two analyst years post grad We recruit which is also really early

Sam Rhee: Re recruit meaning so you do it through your analyst position and then you have to look for another job again

Sasha Rhee: well, so actually Recruiting timelines are so early now for post grad, usually it's when you graduate college.

That June and July, all the private equity firms, all the buy side firms, start their on cycle recruiting for two years.

Sam Rhee: You mean, after you're, you've, in advance

Sasha Rhee: Before you've hit the desk for your full time job.

Sam Rhee: Before you've even worked. They're recruiting for people who

Sasha Rhee: That will join their firm in two years.

Sam Rhee: Two years. Yes. How do they even know at that point? You haven't even worked a day in your life yet. That is the question on

Sasha Rhee: Wall Street currently, I think. A lot of firms do off cycle recruiting, which is six months into your first job, which is kind of similar to like, you know, a year and a half in advance like you do for your junior summer.

Right. It really Depends. It, it's very much like everything is moved early because these firms want to tap into talent earlier. And [00:39:00] also it's like, So you're gonna have to go through

Sam Rhee: a re recruiting cycle at the end of your senior year?

Sasha Rhee: If I decide to Go to BuySide. A lot of people say it's bankers. You become an associate, things like that.

It very much depends. Wait, remind

Sam Rhee: me, BuySide are the people that do what again?

Sasha Rhee: They're like private equity, they're direct investing. Yeah.

Sam Rhee: Okay, okay, okay, okay.

Sasha Rhee: Versus like SellSide, you're in the middle. You're the middle man between the money people. Shout out to the person that runs KFS because he did a, like before I joined my fellowship, he did like a This is what banking actually does and he literally did like people that have money people who need money.

Sam Rhee: Yeah, there's right So that reminds me of a line from some some novel. I can't remember it was anyway, so Well, I think that this is very enlightening to me. I think it also showed how much Like, where you're transitioning from a student into, like, realizing what your life responsibilities are. Like an adult.

Yeah. Like, like looking at this and sort of taking that perspective and realizing that work is not [00:40:00] just like extended school, like there's all these consequences and, um, responsibilities that you have to have. And I

Sasha Rhee: think recruiting is so intense to very much reflect on, like, to weed out the people. You know, like those pre med classes that weed out the kids who can't handle it.

Yeah. Very similar. There are kids I know who wanted to do banking and didn't want to recruit and then realized like, Oh, if I don't want to do like these networking calls, how am I going to last in a banking job? Things like that. Like, it's so intense, but

Sam Rhee: if you don't like this process, you're not going to Exactly.

Sasha Rhee: Exactly. And I think that's also part of why these firms are moving it. Early and earlier is again one. They want to, you know, first members advantage. Everyone's moving early. It's like a domino effect because they want to get into it. I think if they go to freshman year, that's a little bit too intense. I think that this is fine.

It's manageable. Like, I don't think they should go any earlier currently than where they're at right now, because then, like, what are freshmen going to know? Even less. However, I do think that's part of it is like that's why it's so early now is that like we want kids to like want to do this, like who wants to do it, you know, like who's out here putting in the work, taking initiative because [00:41:00] that itself is taking, I think like taking on finance recruiting as a whole is very much like Dependent on the personality and I know people that also prioritize like lifestyle for instance over that and a lot of people will go into consulting because they

Sam Rhee: right,

Sasha Rhee: you mean like, not that you're not working hard hours and consulting, but you are, but you know, make very different types of work and balance and I think that's when it really comes into self reflection and thinking like, what do I actually want to do?

Is it because a lot of people also do get caught up in the name or they get hot up and well, everyone else is doing it. I want to do it too. And that, you know, that can also be a dangerous path to go down. Yeah.

Sam Rhee: It seems so crazy that these decisions have to be made so early in somebody's life. And if you ever didn't know, like, cause there's so many people I know who it takes a while for them to figure out what it is that they want to do.

And this whole process could completely bypass them at that point. I mean, not that iBanking is like, IB is like the end all and be all, but like. There are certain options [00:42:00] that, in life, that if you don't take advantage of them when they appear, You miss

Sasha Rhee: them.

Sam Rhee: It's really hard to go back and try to do that.

Sasha Rhee: And I think that that's also why a lot of banks, a lot of banks have MBA programs, where if you get your MBA, you can pivot into and become like a summer associate, and then you eventually join. I know I met a lot of people that did that as well. I see. I think that, yes, there is that, but at the same time, like, the world is just so pre professional now.

Even as a pre med, you're like, Even though you might not be applying to med school as a sophomore. Yeah, you are committing yourself to it. You're taking hard classes You're volunteering at the hospital. Yeah, you're catering your resume To med school, even if the application is later, you're still doing the same thing and kind of locked in same with law Like everything is so pre professional now that I think it's not just finance The world is asking kids to think about what they want to do earlier and earlier.

Sam Rhee: It is true I remember the when I applied to medical school, you could actually not Have your whole life geared [00:43:00] around looking like you wanted to be the best doctor in the world and still get into medical school.

Sasha Rhee: Yeah.

Sam Rhee: Now

Sasha Rhee: You need to have a perfect GPA too, unlike you, but you need to have like a great GPA.

Sam Rhee: Right, like everything had to be in place and

Sasha Rhee: You had a bad GPA and two extracurriculars.

Sam Rhee: Okay. Thanks.

Sasha Rhee: RIP.

Sam Rhee: So, it was a different era. And, uh, I had a lot of soft skills, let me put it that way. No, I'm just He

Sasha Rhee: aced his interview, guys. Yeah, I know. That's the thing is, like, I think I've, I spoke to a lot of senior people also, and I think you speak to, like, most of your networking calls are first year analysts and second year analysts because those are the people involved with the recruiting because also a lot of banks have, like, Duke specific recruiting teams where you really should only talk to alum because those are the only people that are pulling Duke resumes out.

I will very much say I value my conversations the most with people four plus years into their career, and I think that's because they have a different perspective.

Sam Rhee: Of course they do.

Sasha Rhee: Everyone forgets, recruiting makes you so narrow minded and you forget that your first job is not your last job. Of course.

I think speaking to people [00:44:00] that are many years into their career, like Vito, for instance, where they change, you know, you change paths, they switch firms, they Like life happens to them and they make a change and I think that those are, those were really nice reminders and reassuring moments that remind you that at the end of the day, it's like a job and if you don't like it, you can leave, you can change, you can pivot.

Like it doesn't like, oh, it's too, too late, but truly nothing is ever too late if you have the grind and the dedication.

Sam Rhee: I think if this is something, like it's like with med school, I remember there was a guy who wanted to do cardiothoracic surgery and he, Even as an undergrad, he, all he did was like, hang out with them, did research with them, did nothing with them, and now, of course, he is a Is

Sasha Rhee: he a cardiothoracic surgeon?

Sam Rhee: very well known cardiothoracic surgeon, uh, I would say it almost seems that that is the norm rather than the exception to be successful at this point. You have to know from the womb that this is what you want to do. And if you do that and everything sort of points you towards that, that's great. And so I [00:45:00] would say my advice would be if you have a strong interest in something, lean into it.

Yeah. Whether it's I bank, you know, IB or, or, or medicine. But if you don't, like,

Sasha Rhee: That's okay.

Sam Rhee: These paths are not available to you and you're going to have to figure out different paths, uh, which is sort of a shame, but maybe it's also good in terms of freedom. I don't know. Like you're locked in at this point.

Sasha Rhee: Dubs. Well, to me, it's a dub, but some other people might not be a dub and that's where the self reflection comes into play.

Sam Rhee: That's right. So I think self reflection, you've mentioned that multiple times is probably key. And I think that that's hard for anyone to do, but, um, I think at any point in your life, I think.

Even at my age, I do a lot of self reflection, like, what the F am I going to do next?

Sasha Rhee: Careers are never linear, and that's something that I think people my age forget when we're recruiting so early. But then you speak to people who look back on their career, like you, very not straight line.

Sam Rhee: Thank God that you did CrossFit, like I made you do CrossFit my God, I

Sasha Rhee: know!

I don't know where I would be without it. I wrote my college essay about it. I, that's [00:46:00] my part of my, tell me about yourself. I bonded with a guy, I got into the KFS fellowship, I'm convinced, because I met a guy at their career day who also crossfits, who's now one of my very close mentors, who's awesome.

Sam Rhee: Crossfit is life, and I would say, It's a cult. And the fact that you're still crossfitting, uh, at your campus and, uh, part of a gym out there. I

Sasha Rhee: think I'm doing

Sam Rhee: my fourth or fifth Open next year, this year. This year?

Sasha Rhee: Maybe third or fourth.

Sam Rhee: Yeah. So, uh, you know. I don't know. All you can do as a parent is just help your kids lean into what interests you, hopefully it interests them.

Uh, maybe it won't work out so well as like having a hook for your IB, uh, interviews, but you never know. You just have to, you know, sort of roll with it and see, uh. What happened? That

Sasha Rhee: transaction transformed me, and I watched them as they tried to figure out how to increase membership.

Sam Rhee: Oh my lord. Alright, so thank you so much, Sasha.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Good luck, uh, with the rest of your, uh, school year in, uh, being a sophomore. And uh, until [00:47:00] next time in our next topic. Alright.