S01E06 - David Syvertsen - CrossFit vs. Other Fitness Programs

November 27, 2020 - Today's episode is again with David Syvertsen, owner and coach at my box, CrossFit Bison, in Midland Park New Jersey. We compare CrossFit to other fitness programs such as OrangeTheory, F45 and Peloton, and what exactly is different about CrossFit. Thanks for listening.

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S01E06 David Syvertsen - CrossFit vs. Other Fitness Programs
Sam Rhee: [00:00:00]  Welcome to another episode of Botox and burpees. I'm Dr. Sam Rhee plastic surgeon and CrossFit coach host of this podcast, where we talk about plastic surgery, CrossFit, and everything in between. Today's episode is again with David Syvertsen, owner and coach of my box CrossFit Bison in Midland park, New Jersey. We compare CrossFit to other fitness programs, such as orange theory, F45 and Peloton. And what is different about CrossFit? Thanks for listening.
  
Okay. Great. So we talked a little bit about CrossFit and what we think is so great about it, but now there are a lot of other, programs out there's a lot of other corporate or, franchise exercise groups. There's orange theory. There's a 45. And a lot of these are making big inroads Barry's bootcamp, soul cycle.
people can choose from a lot of stuff and they can't do all of it even Peloton. So why should they choose CrossFit versus any one of these other exercise programs? 
David Syvertsen: [00:01:01] I'll first off saying. I've never had a personal experience with F45 , with Oran- Theory fit- with orange theory fitness.
I've never been on a Peloton. So I do want to say my credibility when it comes to talking about those places is limited. Just like I would want someone from F 45 to put that out there before they're talking about CrossFit. if you haven't done it. Yeah. Chill on how strong your opinion is about it.
But I'll say this on a macro level. At 45 orange theory, your random bootcamp down the street. I'm not anti those places at all. And I'm going to tell you why, and it's probably not the best business practice because I know this is like pro CrossFit. We're at bison right now. The. what they do well and what cross it does well is the same it's group fitness, right?
think about quarantine when all that, I talked to so many people from our gym during quarantine, like it's hard to work out by yourself. Yeah. Especially if it's like high intense, if you're really motivated, cause you have a wedding coming up or you're going to the beach in two weeks.
but when it comes to like just the day-to-day grind of working out, think about this past week, how often it was raining and cold the County times you wanted to stay in bed, right? Yeah. The energy in the gym is different on rainy days. I've noticed that for so long. But you have a group here that, if you get your ass here, you're going to go hard and you're going to work.
You're going to work hard. You can't always say that it when you're by your, by yourself. So I have 45 orange theory. They do the fine. And I think where they contrast and cross it is there's not nearly as much skill and not nearly as much strength work. And if you don't care about that stuff, if you don't care about doing muscle-ups and lifting heavy weights and Really seeing what your body can actually do. Those places might be a better fit for you. I'm not going to say they are a better fit, but we're across it really sets themselves apart from programs like . And orange theory is it's, in my opinion, a much longer term, long game approach to let's see how fit you can get, or let's see what you can actually accomplish with your body, because.
you can take anyone off the street, put them into an  orange theory, tell them to go hard, run on a treadmill. Do these battle ropes, throw up a 30 pound slam ball and you'll get a great workout. You'll check the box. You'll probably lose some weight, lose some fat. You'll get fitter in six weeks. Yeah, but with CrossFit.
Yeah, the amount of like steps on the ladder, the amount of steps you have to walk up, th the fitness level that you will achieve by doing things the right way and sticking to it, sticking to the approach that the fitness level you can reach via CrossFit is so much higher than what you can do at an F 45 at orange theory.
And again, more power to you if you don't care. 
Sam Rhee: [00:03:35] I agree with you. I, myself have not done any of these, other programs, but I have looked at them and I will tell you, and I will tell you that, The first thing is if they're better than nothing. So if it's sitting on a couch 100% or going to  by all means go to F 45.
if it means working out, by yourself doing P90X at home versus a group, generally, like you said, is way more successful for people. Absolutely. So if you're not doing anything and you have an  store 
David Syvertsen: [00:04:03] go awesome. 
Sam Rhee: [00:04:04] That being said, I agree with you about CrossFit for a couple of reasons.
The first is, there's no, I feel like those are great, but very guided experiences and fitness. there are no training wheels 
David Syvertsen: [00:04:17] with CrossFit. 
Sam Rhee: [00:04:18] Yeah. 
David Syvertsen: [00:04:18] you're right. Which is, 
Sam Rhee: [00:04:19] which is good and bad. I think if you're a very risk adverse, you've, you're really scared, There are some people that just have a lot of apprehension about this.
Sure. And if you feel like, taking a soul cycle class or an F 45 class is a safe way to achieve fitness. That is great. But I will also tell you that, like you said, for lifetime fitness, you can take the skills that you, take away from doing CrossFit and you can. Work out on your own.
Yep. And you can build on your own skill set that you may not be able to two with a Barry's bootcamp. It's very hard to replicate a Barry's bootcamp or an  by yourself. Yes. That having done this for several years, and then we had the pandemic and I was working out at home and granted, I had a bunch of stuff in my garage that maybe not everyone has like a squat rack and all that, but yeah.
I think there was a lot that I was able to do following other, your programming online and so forth that I could do on my own because of the skillset that I had. I know how to snatch. I know how to do cleans. I know how to do back squats. I know how to, what the stimulus is behind these programming.
so when you do these things at these, at these other, fitness places, it's a very guided, Experience And when you're doing a CrossFit, as you do it, you are learning more about yourself and how to guide your own experience. That's a great point. And that's why I love CrossFit because, you can now decide what you want to do.
Remember it was online first, this was all programming. When CrossFit first started, they just posted these workouts and every, anyone can do them and they still do that. Yeah. And I think, that is. That is the philosophy and mindset of CrossFit is that everyone should do this, not come to our place.
So you have to do it this way. But you, the spirit of CrossFit is you yourself, as an individual can do this, right? You don't need anyone. You can do it by yourself. You have, this is how you're going to do it. 
David Syvertsen: [00:06:15] That's a great point. because I think we're an F 45 owners theory what they bank on is variety, which that's part of the cross of program too, is.
Put a lot of different stuff together, do it at high intensity and you're going to burn calories and that it's, but there isn't as much teaching, right? Like they'll teach you how to pick up the slam ball and throw it above your head and throw it to the ground. But because you've been taught certain 30 different things about the back squat, you know that if you're going to go squat heavy in your garage, there isn't any, am I doing this right?
like you could just put the video on yourself and you'll know right away. Did you get below parallel? I think that's a great part that I didn't even think about. Like how much you learn just by being at a quality CrossFit so that when you do, when you are forced to work at forced to work out by yourself, you don't have to think that much about it, because how many people are just like, all right, I'm gonna go for a run today because that's going to be my workout.
not that's bad, coming from someone that doesn't like running, but, th there's this, there's so many parts to fitness that people miss out on because they don't put themselves into an environment like this, where that you're really taught about strength and conditioning and gymnastics and Olympic lifting.
that's a great point. 
Sam Rhee: [00:07:26] Yeah. I think if you took an experienced CrossFitter versus any other athlete and you just threw them out there, They would figure out what to do to keep themselves fit in, in an excellent way possible they would pull resources, they'd figure out what they needed to 
David Syvertsen: [00:07:39] do. look at the pandemic.
We had people doing snatches with like propane tanks and stuff, But you start, you can do that because you know how to do a snatch and you understand why you would snatch, you understand how to hip extend quarter extremity. You like bees. You're taught that stuff all the time. it's not just about you burning calories.
that 
Sam Rhee: [00:07:55] being said, What do you think people outside of CrossFit maybe legitimately or not legitimately would say about the issues about CrossFit? why maybe this is not necessarily the best for anybody or, 
David Syvertsen: [00:08:07] I would say the big, the biggest thing is the injuries, right? Like injuries are common in CrossFit. I'd rather re I would rather rephrase that then say injuries are common when you're doing things at high intensity.
Over with high volume over and over again. 
Sam Rhee: [00:08:20] And I want to talk about injuries more in more detail separately. 
David Syvertsen: [00:08:23] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's topic one. We don't even need to dive into it. Topic two, I would think is, people going from like what high, the way I started is you're just going for a one-rep max snatch, your third day there.
And let's see how much you can lift. there are a lot of crosses out there that. Are irresponsible right. With some of the more complex movements at the gyms. And I'll say part three and aye. Aye. Aye. I feel strongly about this is you can come in with the responsible mindset of move. make sure you stay within yourself for now learn this stuff.
But when you're in a group of atmosphere that is really high intensity, that environment can force you into trying things that you probably shouldn't be doing it. Or shorting it a little bit. I think about chicken wing bar muscle ups, right? I don't think I've ever taken someone out of a workout.
I'm like, Hey man, your chicken wing, you can't do them, but I've had conversations on the side, Hey, you're moving like crap here. And it's because the environment, you're trying to beat the person next to you. Yeah. And you, I think there's some short term. Approach that really can sacrifice your longterm.
Sam Rhee: [00:09:29] I think a lot of that boils down to what we talked about in the last, segment, which was uneven in instruction or the uneven level of instruction that's available or out there with different affiliates. And yeah. I honestly think at this point, the quality of affiliate there is, I don't want to say that.
There's a minimum decent level of experience out there because there are some truly awful places, but I do have to say in the year 2020, the good and bad thing about starting out, affiliates so quickly is that the bad ones tend to drop pretty quick. Yeah. And, the ones that have been around maybe let's look in North Jersey, maybe we don't necessarily agree.
With everything that every affiliate is doing out there, but they're surviving and why are they surviving? They're surviving because they're doing something right. Yeah. And most people who are going to go to any of the longstanding affiliates in the area are going to get something, maybe, and rightly so we think we do.
David Syvertsen: [00:10:25] Yeah. But yeah, I will say that on record. Like I would like there's things that I think we do better, but that's not right. That doesn't like, wake me up in the morning. I like to stay within ourselves, just I would want an athlete to do the same thing. I want you to work on you. Not put the attention on someone that's eight feet away from you.
That's a little more advanced than you. 
Sam Rhee: [00:10:43] and I think that, CrossFit, hopefully also in the future is going to focus on lifting the quality for all affiliates out there, 
David Syvertsen: [00:10:51] coming up with certain standards or more, 
Sam Rhee: [00:10:54] more resources for these affiliates to focus on 
David Syvertsen: [00:10:57] improving your coaching.
Sam Rhee: [00:10:58] Yes. And yeah. And making sure that the athletes are getting. I don't want to say, because listen, I think part of the reason why we're so into CrossFit is that it is not a franchise experience, right? It's not a, McDonald's where a big Mac is a big Mac is a big Mac. your programming is custom for the people that you serve.
And, we should talk about programming at some point in the future, but sure. But I think, I think the fact that. I think athletes should take hope that the level of programming and teaching and instruction is only going to continue to get better. for all affiliates, 
David Syvertsen: [00:11:32] 100%. I can look at stuff that I used to coach and program three years ago, four years ago, five years ago.
And I feel I've gotten better at it, but which is easy to say, right? Like how often do you hear Oh, like I used to be really bad at this, but now I'm great. Like right now I will look at myself three years from now. And look what I'm doing today and be like, you know what? I should've been better at this.
And that's the people here are almost evolving with me and with bison and with Chris and with all of our coaches that we're getting better on the fly. And we take a huge amount of burden and responsibility that if we screw up, we're going to screw you up. That's pressure. I feel every day, whether I'm coaching our programming, And it's.
the second I stopped feeling like that, I think I got to check out because it's a huge responsibility control. What, on average, right? now we're probably back up to about 110 people per day that come and work out here. that's, you're looking at five to 600 people per week.
If I'm not, if I'm not trying to get better at it, like I can mess them up. And that's a huge responsibility. And I know if I get lazy on it, it's, I become a disservice to them, but that's the mindset that. You have to have, and three years from now, I'm like, you know what, I should have done this, but I'm taking a course right now on getting better at that.
Yeah. 
Sam Rhee: [00:12:50] And I think that's because the skillset of your athletes. Or getting better. And that is something that I think a lot of these franchise models do not have. it's a great point, with Peloton you're not getting better. you're just paying for a fitness experience, right? Yeah.
Just to burn calories with, an instructor who is making entertaining for you. But I will tell you right now, three years of Peloton versus three years of CrossFit, who's going to be. Better off in terms of their fitness experience, like who 
David Syvertsen: [00:13:21] will, you could probably make the case that you might go backwards on overall general fitness.
If all you're doing is sitting on a bike and biking, because there are so many movement patterns you never partake in, what are you doing with your upper body? what are you doing with your core? You're just getting, maybe stronger legs and building your aerobic capacity on a bike.
Sam Rhee: [00:13:40] Yeah. Look, it's like professional cyclists. They have a lot of limitations, functionally. Yeah. Because they're so like, just like a marathon runner is a pro cyclist has a lot of functional limitations that they're so specialized to a particular, which is fine within 
David Syvertsen: [00:13:53] that sport. But for general fitness.
Which is what people want a Peloton, you're not training to be on the tour de France on a Peloton. Like you're doing it for fitness. You're not becoming that fit. By doing the same thing over and over, imagine we came here and we did burpees every day. Like you're not going to get, or like you'll build up capacity, aerobic patterns.
And that's it. 
Sam Rhee: [00:14:12] I think, the thing to talk to people about is that, listen, there's, you have to have strength of character to do CrossFit. You have to, not be 
afraid to be uncomfortable. It does take some investigative work to find a place that works for you. And for a lot of people, I understand that those, all those things might be turnoffs.
If they've never lifted a finger in their life or really wanted to do anything, that really was exercise-related. But if you really care about yourself, There's only one modality that I know that's out there. That's really in the long run going to pay off for you. That's really going to pay dividends in the future that, you're not going to short yourself.
And that means not necessarily having training wheels and making it a. a simple experience, but what in life has been of benefit to people. That's really that simple anyway. 
David Syvertsen: [00:15:02] Yeah. That's a great point. So yeah, you're getting my wheels spinning, just saying stuff like that. Yeah. There's, you're putting it.
you're putting it in a great way. there really is. There's nothing like this in the world and I think that's why continues to grow and get better. Like I know they fit a little bit of a Kawika flat line over the past couple of years. but I think that's been the fitness industry in general because people are buying mirrors, and having the mirror train them in their living room, which is just absurd.
but I think that the person contact the relationships that you have and the people that are actually investing in you, and we're like, I'm telling you, you can look at my phone, I'm sure you had the same thing, messaging people on a Saturday night about their squat clean and how to fix knee pain at the bottom of the squat.
No, the amount of personal care that you get and what it can do to elevate your CA your self care is there's nothing like that in the world. I 
Sam Rhee: [00:15:56] think we reflect some of the best, or we try to, I don't want to say we do, but we try to reflect some of the best. Underlying principles of what CrossFit is.
And you can see that in the seminar staff, in terms of, him, imparting this message of health, health and wellness and let's face it. The other thing that I think that CrossFit does better than any of these other places do is, the complete package of wellness. we talk, I've learned so much about nutrition for sure, through CrossFit.
about health 
David Syvertsen: [00:16:24] treatment. 
Sam Rhee: [00:16:25] Yes. Treat you know about, it's recovery understanding that this is not just like an hour. He like, I don't think that a lot of these places or classes really say, listen, this class is one part of your fitness life. 
David Syvertsen: [00:16:40] They do. It's probably very template, right?
It's probably like something you can get out of a fifth grade textbook. And I'm not disrespecting, but that's where a lot of corporate franchise. Company. that's what they do. It's Hey, tell them to eat broccoli with dinner. you know that there's not a lot of talk about your thoracic mobility at a place that doesn't go overhead that much.
Like we talk about that and how it can take strain off your lower back. my glute and hamstring strength. Is what made my knee pain go away that I had since I was 17 years old. Pre CrossFit, by the way, and that was taught via CrossFit. 
Sam Rhee: [00:17:10] philosophy and that in embodied in the emails that they send every day and what the, how dedicated the seminar staff are into talking about it.
When they talk to us, as coaches about, all of these things, those first time I heard about zone. not the first, but like in huge detail from, corporate, training program was through CrossFit. And the fact that they sit there and espouse all of these programs, not to gain money.
That's the other thing it's not for their own financial benefit yet. They're doing it because they truly believe that this is a path to wellness, making a difference, which is what I think all good CrossFit affiliates, espouses it's, yes. Money, but. It's about truly believing that this is a path to wellness.
100%. Yeah. 
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