S02E02 - David Syvertsen - Different Coaching Styles in CrossFit

January 16, 2021 - Today's episode is again with David Syvertsen, owner and coach at my box, CrossFit Bison, in Midland Park New Jersey. We discuss the roles coaches play in CrossFit and different coaching styles.

Coaches are much more than people who play music and start the workout. They should be an integral part of your workout experience. We discuss how why we sometimes connect better with some coaches than others, and how coaches themselves think about how best to work with athletes too.

Click on your podcast site to listen and subscribe!

2021.01.16 S02E02 DAVID SYVERTSEN - COACHING STYLES CROSSFIT

Full transcript (click here for PDF)

Sam Rhee: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Botox and burpees. I'm Dr. Sam Rhee, plastic surgeon and CrossFit coach. Host of this podcast, where we talk about plastic surgery, CrossFit, and everything in between, you can find more information at our website, Botox and burpees.com and make sure to like, and subscribe wherever you listen to our podcast. 
Today's episode is again with David Syvertsen owner and coach at my box CrossFit Bison in Midland park, New Jersey. We discussed the roles coaches play in CrossFit and different coaching styles. Coaches are much more than people who play music and start the workout. They should be an integral part of your workout experience. 
We discuss why we sometimes connect better with some coaches than others. And how coaches themselves think about how best to work with athletes too.  
What we're going to talk about next is different coaching styles or getting along with your coach. And this is not about good coaches or bad coaches. This is about people mesh with different coaches, different coaching styles.
People mentioned, because coaches, some people think coaches are just, they make you go through the warm up, they turn on some music. Like I like my coach because they play this kind of a rap mix and then they start the clock and maybe they encourage us, but there's actually a lot more obviously to coaching than that.
And so I wanted to talk about how people can react to different coaching styles, what different coaching styles are and how that can impact your workout on a daily basis. 
David Syvertsen: [00:01:36] Yeah we could go several different directions there, because you have, in our experience alone, which is still, I could say combine us two, it's still limited in terms of the whole spectrum, the whole world of it.
There are so many different people that coach personalities at coach experience levels that coach. You just go into so many different angles there, so there should be a good one. 
Sam Rhee: [00:01:54] So I pull a lot of my coaching thoughts from Ben Bergeron and he has a lot of very good tips in his podcast and what he talks about.
I think one of the first things let's start off with the baseline of what a good coach should be and he thinks, and I think I agree with him that at minimum a good coach should educate. They should entertain. They should not be boring and they should inspire. Now that being said, you can break down those into different categories and everyone has their different personality styles.
Like for example, any uses an example like Bill Belichek great coach. Personality might be a little dull. He is obviously someone who inspires. He must be entertaining on some level and he obviously is educating. So let's talk about this.  There are three stereotypes that I read in an article from CrossFit inner drive and they break down  Stereotypes of coaches into three, they say you can have the scientist coach, the cheerleader coach and the perfectionist coach.
And let's start with the scientist. 
David Syvertsen: [00:03:04] As you say that I like, I have like different faces that pop up, we 
Sam Rhee: [00:03:07] all have to get it's true. And we all fall into the stereotypes to a certain degree. So the scientist's coach would be the one that has a lot of knowledge has a big wealth of experience.
Maybe they have some difficulty communicating it. Maybe they're using some really big words and they're not just being as direct about certain things. 
David Syvertsen: [00:03:26] Yeah. And I, I think those kinds of coaches excel with like really small groups, maybe even like personal training type where, it really comes down to just the communication with one-on-one two on one where you can spend time talking about.
Muscle groups stimulus energy systems where, Hey, your, your client really wants to hear about that because it's going to help them. You have all this wealth of knowledge that can really help that person out, where maybe in a group setting, if you take say our morning classes here, the big classes, half of them don't want that, it's not, they don't care about, they just want to come and work out, go home.
And I think I've always found. I don't want to call them the smarter, but I would say the more book, smart coaches where like they really can get into the science, behind everything I've found in my experience that they're best off with a really small group, like a special ed group that is specifically going to sign up for that.
Whether it's like a specialty class, like I consider coach Dallas like that. When he does a, the barbell classes here at Olympic lifting classes, he's a little bit more scientific with his approach, but the people that come to that class, they know that and they want that. Where if he's here in front of a 5:00 AM class and that it's a snatch day, I don't think most of those people are really going to care too much about, quick Twitch, muscle fiber, quick Twitch muscle fibers.

Sam Rhee: [00:04:43] I really feel like the five and 6:00 AM classes are they remind me of the stereotype of a a very experienced herd of horses or sheep or something like they know where they want to go. You can, all you have to do is sorta say giddy up a little bit, and then they'll just go, yup.
You can't really do too much at five or 6:00 AM in the morning and I'm a 6:00 AM or, and I know, we, most of us are fairly experienced at that level. And even the ones that are new, like they, they fit in pretty quick. There's some 5:00 AM and 6:00 AM are set up pretty 
David Syvertsen: [00:05:11] good with it. I think that's a culture thing at a lot of gyms.
Like the morning crew is I would say. The most consistent, not because they're more dedicated, it's just their bodies wake up now at three, 4:00 AM. And what are you going to do at that time? And a lot of them have no other option it's or in the day. So it's just a more consistent flow day after day at the gym.
And that is simply why you just see basically the same paint faces at 5:00 AM at 6:00 AM at 7:00 AM give or take, they, when these guys take a day off and that they you're right, they're more experienced and they're more in their flow. They want to work out in the same spot usually.
And. I do think they're a little bit more, less scientific or less wanting to hear about that kind of stuff from a coach. 
Sam Rhee: [00:05:50] I think as when I come in for 6:00 AM, especially if I'm a little tired, I want to, I want someone who can give me a good warmup as a coach. Not take too long, but just get me, nice balance.
I don't really care about the music so much. And if they can give me one decent tip. I'm good with that for the day, 
David Syvertsen: [00:06:08] whether it's in the warmup or during the workout. Yep. 
Sam Rhee: [00:06:10] All right. So then the next type or stereotype of coach that they mentioned is cheerleader, the high energy, really rah rah gets you going and inspire you, are maybe not the most teaching 
David Syvertsen: [00:06:22] yeah. Yeah. And those are important too,  it's funny, like you, the first thing you said here is there's no good or bad what we're talking about. We're talking about different kinds of coaches. I would actually say in the cheerleader, it almost seems like it's almost an insult, but at the end of the day, There are a lot of people in this gym that need that.
And if they don't get it, they're not going to have a good experience. They'll stay home. They won't come back. Like a lot of people, they care less about how well they're moving. What way? If someone looks at them, gives them attention and claps their hands. And I don't want to dumb it down because it is important.
And I think as a coach, everyone needs to have a little bit of that in them. You can never not be a ch like you can't just be like, no, I'm too rigid. I'm never going to cheer for someone. That's a bad way to approach coaching. Did you do need to give positive reinforcements is something that's really difficult, right?
So that, that is probably, I would say the most common kind of coach or the most common trait you'll see in coaches because it's easy and you can fake it. And It's something that can be used multiple times per class, and throughout the entire class warm-up workout. Post-workout. 
Sam Rhee: [00:07:23] Even at six, am I still I don't want it to be, I don't want my coach to be silent.
Yeah. I want someone at the right time to, to give me that push. And sometimes that can mean the difference between, just collapsing for the last minute or two and falling apart, or pushing a little bit and feeling good about myself after the workout. I S 
David Syvertsen: [00:07:44] Confidence is huge, and I think confidence sometimes gets misconstrued as like someone being too cocky or too, too confident.
Like I'd rather deal with someone that's too confident, honestly, than someone that can never be confident enough. And you can build confidence with people by being a true leader. By, finding something small in a lift, like getting your elbows a little bit higher or catching the bar a little bit higher than your front rack.
The timing of a Kip on a pull up, keeping your feet together, all these little things that a lot of experienced CrossFitters is this lady here so many times, we're like, Oh my shut up. I don't want to hear about my elbows anymore, but when you give someone. A little bit of positive reinforcement.
It makes them more confident, right? When they have more confidence, they simply, they hesitate less, right? When they hesitate less, that's when they start to see what they can actually do with their body performance wise. So that's, it's vital to at least give positive reinforcement to someone at any given point.
Sam Rhee: [00:08:35] I think the good coaches and I see you do it. You go macro micro Bergeron talks about you give the big class encouragement and then you will also focus and. Although when it's me, I always feel like it's when I'm slacking and you're like, whipping me along a little bit more here.
David Syvertsen: [00:08:52] Maybe talk about that at the end of this conversation, but I can say it now is I think as a coach, you do, especially if you're coaching the same people week after week month after month, year after year, I've coached you for years. Now, you need to know when to be positive with them and you need to know when to be a dick, for lack of a better term.
And and that's just like reading the situation, knowing someone's personality. And, but you're right in that it is macro level yell out. Great job. Great job guys. Let's go, blah, blah, blah. But I do try to make it a point I've done. This always is I try to get to everyone at some point in the class and give that person's name a shout, right?
Like every class for the past eight years, and yeah. Sometimes there's people in this gym that they're like, man, like I, could you give me some tips? I'm like, dude, you're doing everything right now. Like it's hard to really break you down, especially in the middle of a why.
Like it's easier to sit down at home and text you, right? Write you an email or something like this, or write your message about all right, we can work on this and this, I do think that it's important to get everyone in the class look just so that person and knows they're being watched and they're being supported.
And Hey, if they're doing a good job, I'm going to give you credit for it, 
Sam Rhee: [00:09:58] yeah. And then the last type that they sort of stereotype coaches into is the perfectionist. So this is the one that spends 20 minutes with the PVC pipe, breaking down this snatch beforehand, really long, warm up, just very tedious and, 
David Syvertsen: [00:10:14] Yeah that's, that is it's funny. Sometimes I'll catch myself doing that. Like there, there was a class last week. There was four people in the class. And I talked about the KIPP on the bar muscle up for six minutes. I was like, what am I doing? I just got so into the concept. And it seemed like they're all listening and honed in.
You get like the head nod, like, all right there, listen. Sometimes that. If you have an athlete, that's really looking there to like really progress. And they're actually there for the genuine reason of I want to get better. I wanna get in better shape. They should like that time. They should appreciate that time.
Because especially if it's a coach that you respect and that they know what they're talking about, there are these little things that they can say, show you do that. It works for you. But the other three minutes of that conversation, it might've been more tailored to the other people in the class. So you really have to hone in and focus.
For the entire talk and then you will get something out of it. So the perfectionist coach, it's hard in a group setting. If you have six to seven to, if not more people you're trying to say something that applies to everyone, like I'll say this, one of the toughest classes I still have to coach now is when it's big, early in the morning.
And I know I have two new people in that class. It's really tough because they don't know what a thruster is and I'm talking, and I get up there, start. Verbally talking about keeping all of your fingers on the thrusters. So at the top of your pinky, isn't floating in the air and they're like that.
Person's wait, what's the thruster again? So you have to spend time talking to the people in class that had been there for five years and they know what a thruster is. They probably could do the workout without your warmup. They could probably get out of here five minutes earlier, if you just shut up about keeping your pinky on the bar.
But that person on the right needs a reminder what a thruster is. And you're trying to teach the same person at the same time. And so like that, that perfectionist, the new is I'm trying to be perfect for those people on the left and those people on the right. And you could say it's an impossible battle to take on, 
but that would be my nightmare is, and I, and you, a couple of the coaches here do an amazing job of being able to quickly move to the again or get them set up without you even move out.
That's hard. 
It's really hard. Yeah. That's really, that's fine. One of the most just not. Thought about things from like someone from the outsider's perspective of how difficult that is. If there's five people in class, it's easy, but think about a Saturday here, partner WOD, especially with what's going on right now.
Everything's so restricted and spacing and equipment. If you have a new person on a Saturday, it's, I'm never gonna tell him not to come. I want them to come. Yeah. Yeah. Probably the, some of the most intense days here in the days, you could really learn about yourself as an athlete. But it's really tough to coach when you have new people in a big class like that, it really 
Sam Rhee: [00:12:48] is, maybe it's because I have some inkling of being a coach, but when I hear a lot of athletes complain about this, I like this coach versus that coach, this coach is boring. This coaches, blah, blah, blah. I didn't ever hear this coach say anything or, yeah. I have less tolerance in some level for that. Because because I think that in generally speaking, most of the coaches at bison, that in our gym here in Midland park actually do a pretty goddamn good job, honestly,
David Syvertsen: [00:13:22] I can say this with. I put my hand on the Bible and say this, I think every single one of our coaches does a good job here, every single one, but there are several different personalities and styles of coaching that you may prefer. I may prefer, like I know for a fact that there's people that prefer, Liz's coaching over mine 100% and I don't get offended by it, and just like when I was an athlete at Hoboken, I preferred a few coaches. You know that we had a couple of guys that coached in the morning that were like, deadbeats, like they're so quiet, like what you're saying, but I still respected their classes a lot because they were good at what they did. They just had different style and who am I to say good coach, bad coach you.
I've heard a couple people say they prefer Liz over you. I won't tell you. 
I prefer Liz over me, 
Sam Rhee: [00:14:07] but I will say this. And I will also ask people in general to give coaches a chance. Yeah. And I will tell you for example, me personally when Mike Dela Torre came, his coaching style is a little different than anyone else's and it wasn't that I liked or disliked it, it was honestly different at 6:00 AM.
And I grew, as  see him now at 6:00 AM, at least two to three times a week. I really like Mike's coaching 
David Syvertsen: [00:14:37] yeah, no, he loves 
Sam Rhee: [00:14:38] classes are great a lot and yeah. I think, I don't want to say it's an acquired taste, but I think for a lot of coaches, people don't give them a chance and you know what, maybe you, if you try to really get the most out of it instead of Oh my God, what is this music?
And why is this warmup so long? And, just like really buy into it a little bit more. Yeah. I think. I think people would find value in that. 
David Syvertsen: [00:15:04] I just think at the end of the day, you have to trust. You have to trust us. And if you're not sure about a coach, I think you need to know if you're a bison member, that if someone is coaching here, we have vetted them.
Like they, that we know that they're going to do a good job. It might not be the style you want every day. But just trust us, they're going to do a good job. And if you don't trust us, they care. 
Yeah. I know. Every coach here really cares about the job they do when they get feedback.
Positive and negative. It impacts them greatly. Yep. Everyone. Yep. And they want to do a better job and let's face it. No, one's perfect. No, so obviously as coaches we'll make mistakes, maybe the co the class won't go as smoothly as we would have liked. Maybe, we didn't do everything the way we should have, but, 
and that's, that comes on the coach too.
Like we shouldn't only talk as athletes need to give them a chance, but coaches need to hold themselves to a standard that never waivers, right? Like when you first start coaching, you're nervous. Like I need to draw out this pace for this warmup. This needs to, that. I want to be the best pull-up teacher ever.
Like I'm going to go watch my YouTube videos. I think those coaches, if you coach for a long time, like you still have to be doing that. Like you have to self-educate you have to refine. You need to break yourself down. And say, all right, that, that did not go as planned. Like that warmup was not good.
It, this took too long. I didn't have an, I didn't keep track of how many rollers we have here. And I just lost track of it. Like these little are, I did not spend enough time mobilizing the overhead today. And I think that's a sign of a good coach. If a coach can tell me what they did wrong or what they need to work on, that's a good sign.

And I feel like when I'm as an athlete doing a workout, I'm very focused on. The movements that I need to do that day. How am I going to get through it? What are my points of performance for that day? And then if I can pull something from the coach, then that's great. If they're giving me guidance on pacing or elbows or some something specific. I will always try to pull that into what I, cause everyone comes into the workout and I'm nervous. I'm a little bit nervous for every workout. Yeah. Am I going to be able to like, even if it's an easy one can I crush it?
Yeah. If it's a hard one, it's ah, I don't really want to do this. 
Like I always say that's a sign that you care.  Especially in the open, it's like people are like, why am I so nervous right now? Like, why is my stomach in knots? Why do I have to always go to the bathroom?
And I'm like, honestly, I think you should be happy about that because it means you care. If if you don't have a heartbeat and you're just like some deadbeat here that just comes in and just walk through the motions, you never get nervous. That's a sign that, you just don't care that much.

Sam Rhee: [00:17:32] Absolutely. And I think most athletes here the fact that they agonize over the workouts. Yeah. It means they really care. Absolutely. And the coach can be big, a big part of that too. They also, there was another article that sort of broke the some of these stereotypes down. And these, I don't think necessarily applied so much to people that I know at bison coach wise, but maybe I've seen them at other boxes in the cheerleader subtype, there's a.
The beautiful dandy, which is the coach that stripped the shirt off, who looks really good. And the leotards are the tight, No Bulls, whatever's and looking at the model like, yeah. And and there'll be like, Oh, I, I did the wide this morning. I did in two minutes and you guys, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Or the one that's like super funny or super entertaining all the time. Like I've seen those types of coaches. Yeah. Does that bother you? 
David Syvertsen: [00:18:21] If I'll say this, the first one talking about like the good-looking rip, the shredded, they have all the apparel. I've always found that those are often like the best athletes that just got asked to coach,  like they, Hey, you're really good at CrossFit.
You're a monster. How about you coach? And I've always found like that could be a colossal mistake. That just because someone's a good athlete does not mean they're going to end up being a good coach. There was a member from here that dropped in at a gym up in new England and not Ben Bergeron, don't worry.
And but he was coached by a celebrity athlete, like hundreds of thousands of followers. And basically she was all right, guys, this is the workout. Go warm up. We start in 15 minutes. It was like a really  no Hey, this is our drop-in. No, there's Hey, what's your experience with CrossFit?
 Do you have any injuries? It's just Hey, okay, cool. Do you sign a waiver? Cool. Here's the workout. It was a warm up. And then during the warmup, she went in and stood in the doorway, talking to somebody else while she ate her lunch. And then, all right guys, ready? Three, two, one go. And like that is someone like, looks like a million bucks, right?
Yeah. Amazing athlete. And that is someone that is basically just saying Hey, I just want to train. And I need someone to pay me, pay some of my bills and that's not a coach to me. I'm the entertainer. I get it. You do need to be somewhat entertaining. And you don't need to be funny.
You don't need to have a witty personality, but by entertaining is you got to make sure the room is not always falling asleep when you coach. So I think there are some people that feel that is their main priority. And I'll tell you what, on some days, Depending on the workout. And also depending on the crowd, that is, that can be the most important part, right?
If we had a workout tomorrow, 300 burpees for time, like it, it I've actually never programmed that. And I also think that, I think that is a quality workout. I really do, but nobody would be excited to come in and do it, maybe Jed, but he, that's a day where like, all right, you might have to try to put some effort into throw the entertainment factor in there a little bit, because right.
There's not much technician. You can do know maybe some cheerleading you can do, but yeah, it's on maybe try to loosen up the room a little bit, because you're gonna have people come in the morning that don't want to do it. 
You programmed stuff like that. Not that, but certain things you just hit it.
Yeah. You try to hide it to the less. Yeah, exactly. Then there are stereotypes, and I don't think I've ever seen a whole lot. I think it just falls under the scientist category with the grumpy expert who just doesn't really say a whole lot, mostly criticism sometimes like rarely gives out compliments.
Yeah. Like someone that's I feel like that's someone that's like on the way out, almost like they're going to getting burned out. Yeah. It's just because, it's tough. Like this job, like coaching, there are days I still have it right now where like these little things annoy you.
And not to the point where Oh, I'm burned out. But there are days where I probably do come across as grumpy and Hey, if you coach every day, you're a human being. It was going to be days where there's stuff going on in your life where, not everyone has a job where you're in front of 75 people a day that you want that need to like, are going to listen to you.
Workouts, it's tough to always come across as happy and shipper, if you have something going on behind the scenes, but there are some coaches that are just always pissed off, and I think that's what that stereotype is. And that, I think that's more of a sign that they've lost touch with what cross it is.
Just the positivity that surrounds it. Even if you think it's fake. I think CrossFit has made a huge killing on. Trying to just be a positive environment in a world that especially right now, it's just seems like nothing is going on. That's positive. So if this could be the one hour a day that you can rely on, I think it's the coach's job.
Like you're gonna have to suck it up sometimes. And. Not always be that jerk, even if you are getting burned out, if you're in a bad mood, so I 
Sam Rhee: [00:21:53] suspect teachers 
David Syvertsen: [00:21:54] probably empathize a lot, 100%. I think teachers, they've been put through the wringer this year and I am definitely empathize with what they're going through because they definitely had a hard time with what they've had to deal with.
Sam Rhee: [00:22:04] The last two there are a couple I'm going to go right to 'em. The one who challenge it, like the determined competitor. So it's the coach and is always is this really your PR? Yeah. You could go heavier, you could try, should you go scale RX, go RX, go, go max 
David Syvertsen: [00:22:20] effort on.
Yeah, you need to know if you're going to be that kind of coach. You better be. That's all I'm gonna say. Like you bet you need to know the people like that. We've had members do that before, where like they want to coach. That should be another topic. The member that thinks that the coach, the, that they're the ones telling other people to go heavy.
And I cringe when I hear it sometimes, because I want to say, you don't know what that person's reaction was after the previous lift. You didn't watch them walk after the previous lift. You didn't watch them. The last time they tried this PR lift, what happens to them the next day? Like you really need to be really fully aware if you want to be like that challenger coach, there are, there is a time and place where I think you can get after a little bit harder and be more aggressive with your coaching and tell someone to go get it, but it should never be at the expense of that person's safety.
And I think that's where a lot of coats, if they're just too adrenaline based. That they just, it's the only thing they can think of to say go heavier, go for it.  Just make sure that, that person really well as an athlete. And if you don't err, on the side of not doing that.
Sam Rhee: [00:23:24] Know, I feel that way. There are different levels of coaching. Yeah. Bergeron has talked about phases. I will say that. You're right. Unless your athletes really well. I'll often when I was coaching more for a pre COVID lately. I have not been as much, but yeah. If I didn't know the answer and they will actually be most of the people that I know I was a athletes.
I was coaching would be like, you know what, I'm going to scale this to this. Is that okay? And I would always be, Oh, unless it sounded unreasonable, I'd say, okay. And then I would try to watch them to see where they were. And sometimes they would finish probably a little faster than the intended stimulus or they didn't really  challenge as much.
And then I would say, okay, now, Yeah, where you were today, you know them right as an athlete. And I would also say, so now you knew where you were today. You can go the next time to blah. So whoever's coaching them. Then they would be able to sell them. Yeah. Sorta self guide 
David Syvertsen: [00:24:13] themselves into that and yeah, self guide them.
And also I think like a sign of good coaches, they can take these mental notes on people. Like it's almost like a photographic memory. Like we had a new girl in here the other day on Saturday, and I could tell she's going to be a very good athlete. She sticks with it. She's going to crush it. Yeah.
But I had never seen her workout before, so we're trying to figure out like what weights to do and she's going to get to that barbell really tired. So I'm like, she's I can do that. So I'm like let's do this. weight this time. And she was right. She probably could have went heavier, but I was like, I'm going to err on the side of caution, when I, while I'm really trying to get you to know you as a, but now I have these mental notes that the next time I see you are like, I know exactly what we can do. 
Sam Rhee: [00:24:48] You have a crazy ability to do that. 
David Syvertsen: [00:24:50] I have a good memory with that kind of stuff. I can't. There's a lot of stuff that my wife wants to kill me on this stuff. Stuff that I can't remember to put away. Yeah, I do. I do have a memory. Like I can remember a lot with what athletes and not touting myself. I'm saying that's a sign of a coach that can really immerse themselves into it. And it's easy for me to do that. It's my career. I don't have. This is not a sod job for me. This is my career and I've put everything I have into it. So I better be able to do that. If I can't, then I shouldn't be doing this 
Sam Rhee: [00:25:18] Difference between a pro and a non-pro is that you, you have that crazy that scary ability. You haven't seen me sometimes lifting a long time and you're like, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like yep. 
Yeah, definitely help out the cat guiding the weights and just the stimulus. Yeah. Yeah. 
You can get every episode of Botox and burpees, wherever you listen to podcasts. Or go to botoxandburpees.com. thanks for listening