S02E04 - Terri Wiatrak & David Syvertsen - How, Why, What to Track in Fitness

January 29, 2021 - Today's episode is with special guest coach Terri Wiatrak, and David Syvertsen, owner and coach at my box, CrossFit Bison, in Midland Park New Jersey.

We discuss why, when and how to track your fitness. Not charting your fitness life is like going on a journey without a map or GPS. We discuss different methods, approaches, and thoughts about recording and personalizing the fitness journey.

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Episode: S02E04 - Terri Wiatrak & David Syvertsen - How, Why, What to Track in Fitness

Full transcript (click here for PDF)

Sam Rhee: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Botox and burpees. I'm Dr. Sam Rhee, plastic surgeon and CrossFit coach. Host of this podcast, where we talk about plastic surgery, CrossFit, and everything in between, you can find more information at our website, Botox and burpees.com and make sure to like, and subscribe wherever you listen to our podcast. 
This week's episode is with special guests, coach Terri Wiatrak and David Syvertsen owner and coach at my box, CrossFit Bison in Midland park, New Jersey. We discuss why when and how to track your fitness, not charting your fitness life is like going on a journey without a map or GPS. We discussed different methods, approaches, and thoughts about recording and personalizing the fitness journey.
Keeping track of our fitness. How, why and what should we be keeping track of in terms of our progress and fitness? To open, Glassman said, CrossFit is results-based. Measurable observable, repeatable data. And if it's data, then we should be keeping track of our data.
And I did read an article and it said, basically not keeping a training journal is akin to going on a journey without a map or GPS. You probably won't end up at your desired destination. And if you do, it'll only be by luck and with a lot of wasted time and effort. So tell me about what both of you do in terms of keeping track of your progress and how you do it and how people should be thinking about it.
Yeah. 
Terri Wiatrak: [00:01:33] Okay. So I Def I keep journals. I have my notebook from my very first class here and it's upstairs in the third floor along with the other notebooks. And I I pick up a different journal, maybe every year I do a new one or whatever, and I just have I write down the workout before I come to the gym.
So when the workout gets posted and I know I'm going to come in, I write it down in my notebook, so I don't need a whiteboard. I have my own notebook. And then I have a plan of action. What am I going to do today? If I don't know what weight I'm going to do, if there's a barbell in there, I just leave that blank until I get in.
And then I warm up and I say, okay, this feels good. I'm going to do this, or I'm going to do that. But at the end of the workout, I always record my time on there. I record my rounds and reps. And then I make a note of how I felt that day. Just this went well, this didn't go well. The handstand pushup sucked, like whatever.
I'll just take a little note and then I always have something to go back on. If for some reason I'll have my notebook with me. I take a picture of my whiteboard whenever I write it on the whiteboard and I have it in my phone and I have a file on my phone of CrossFit workouts, but I always record it because there are times down the road, dave will say, okay. Our one rep max back squat. Okay. We'll have him back squatted heavy in eight months. I don't remember where I was at, but I can go back and I can see it. Granted, he, everybody posts it on Beasts of Bison on our Facebook page the workouts. But if you have it tangible and it's right there, you can you just look back at your progress.
I know my one notebook. Okay. I had a green and a red band for my pull-up workout. One of my first pull up workouts. And I, that was where I started. And I it's nice to look back and say, okay, look where I am now versus where I was six years ago or seven years ago. So I don't know. I just, I think for me, I like tangible, I like hard copies of things and I like to just see it in front of me, even, with my daily calendars and things like that.
So 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:03:29] Same here. I like stuff. That's not technology based. Like I still write down directions sometimes when I drive it's, I just it's just more reliable, like I do, I've been doing this for so long now. Like I can recite to you, like what every lift is for me. What my all time PR is, but that doesn't mean I can do it right now.
Absolutely not. I think this is something I could probably do a better job of, but I have a spreadsheet with my lifts. And some of the CrossFit benchmarks like Fran and grace and Isabelle. But I do have a memory that like with CrossFit related stuff that I can remember a lot, like scores and times and reps and all that stuff.
Like I can almost recite to all like my open scores, like stuff that I really care about. But I don't write all that down. Like open scores. I always think of another reason. I like the open like that. Information's always there for you, you can always go back and look at your scores.
Like you can look at. Your scores, my scores from 2012 on there. This is cool, to go back and look at that. But in terms of, do I actually write down stuff in the journal? I don't I rely on our pictures that we take of the whiteboard. Like when we do repeat workouts we don't do that many, but when we do, we can, it's pretty easy for us to find because we tell the coaches to date it when they post it.
Even then sometimes it doesn't work, but the it's easy for us to find those so that we can show people like, Hey, like here you go. Here's your score back then? Here's my score back then? I do think it's important because like you said, the way you opened this talk was like how much of this stuff is, observable, repeatable.
And I do like the idea of having a workout program that shows objective progress. The problem with that is there are some variables. Within a workout score that are not accessible on a white board. This is where I think a journal would help is Hey, I hit this weight on my squat, but this is what I did the day before.
This is where I was at life-wise. This is I. Got great sleep. I ate this, because we're in this gym, like how do you compare workout scores here compared to the old, yeah, it was a completely different layout, and you were five years younger, it's so I think sometimes it can become a detriment to always be comparing yourself.
Like we're all depreciating assets physically, right? Yes, like I can say I'm fitter now than I was. I was, seven years ago, but I do go back and forth throughout a year and I don't always want to use. A score from two years ago, like I don't, that's part of the reason why I don't like repeating open workouts anymore.
It's hard to repeat the environment. Like I think a lot of people try harder in the open than they do throughout the rest of the year. So why use open score as your barometer right now? Like I used to repeat them all the time. I was wondering about that. I used to repeat them all the time and then I started to notice I'm like, people are not beating themselves, but I know for a fact they're fitter, but the environment is a big deal.
There's stuff like my best open score ever. It was 2018. I was top 20 in the world in a workout. There's no shot. I can do that right now, but I feel like I'm fitter than I was back then. But that was like, I was competing for a team. A lot of things were lined up, like training wise, leading up to the three, four months prior to didn't have a single cheat, didn't have a kid was sleeping 10 hours a day.
Like that kind of stuff. Like it's hard to always use. A result of the past for your current state, you 
Sam Rhee: [00:06:34] know, I I don't treat, keep anything now, and it's really awful, which is why we're talking about it right now. Because to me it's a little bit of trying to pick your guys' brains about it. I think the best I'm not I'm not a paper person anymore.
I used to be many years ago, but now it's all digital for everything. I loved. No, there were some drawbacks to it, but I thought one of the best things we did experiment with was beyond the whiteboard. When we had the app, when I was logging the workoutbecause it gave you some assessment based on length of time of all the workouts you were logging and the different movements and the weights, where if you were deficient on your short workouts or maybe your long workouts or your weight workouts or your cardio workouts, and it gave you some numbers about it.
And it was easy for me to type in back squat and pull my every recent back squat wod we've done, and then I could say, Oh yeah, when I did it with box jumps, it was this. And when we were just doing progressions by three, one, it was this. And I feel like that's something I really want to go back to because I think,  but I, there were limitations.
I think, feeling how you felt is super important. You know what I do the open workouts too, because it is a way of measuring from one year to the next, because they repeat at least one of them every year. And we did one. And I told you this last year, it was like the one with the 315 pound deadlifts.
And I did worse this year than I did last time, but I wasn't dead and feeling like crap and beat up. And for the next week I could actually work out the next day, right this time around. So there was a big difference. And I feel like if I had a fitness journal and I had logged that I would have looked and it said, Oh, the next day I was able to do this.
And this is how I felt. And I think that's. That's super important. I like the reset challenge because I am keeping track every day of am I sleeping? What am I drinking? How's my food.  Think that some of these things w we should be encouraging everyone to be 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:08:34] doing. Yeah.
All right. So I can say full disclosure regarding, beyond the whiteboard. We did it for awhile, like as usual with anything new, a lot of people did it. I think we had 60 people sign up for it right away. And then two weeks later, 10 people were using it. And, this is the full disclosure.
It was so much work to put every single workout into the whiteboard and It was a little limited with some of our workouts are very unique in that they're not just a straight am rap. It's not just straight five rounds for time. There's a lot of like interval rest and this and that. And I'm like, man, this has taken like an hour, two hours every week and there's eight people that are using it.
So I do think beyond the whiteboard would be great for you just tracking your lifts and some like really specific workouts, like benchmarks workouts, the girls, the heroes, the open workouts I don't think it's necessary to log every single thing you do every day, unless you're pursuing something that you're trying to find a trend like, wow, why do I suck every Tuesday, Wednesday?
Like maybe it's because Sundays are like, I'm being biased. Like Sundays are like the one day of the week where I usually let loose nutrition, go have some drinks, watch football, sit down a lot. Don't stretch. Don't work out in the afternoon. And then Monday you can usually will yourself through something, but then Tuesday catches up to you.
So like I've always, I've found trends like that, or like my worst workout days in the past have been Thursday, Friday. Why it's because Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night I sleep four to five hours and I try to get an hour nap. So like maybe I shouldn't work. I think tracking for that reason alone helps out a lot.
Do I think you need to know, the exact time of every single workout you did. I don't. Unless you really plan on repeating stuff. But I think the lifestyle stuff, like when you said with reset, that's why we're doing it this year. It can help you find trends. Like, why am I always 211 pounds on Monday and 206 on Friday?
What happened? What's going on there? I think that can help you just look into some lifestyle stuff. 
Sam Rhee: [00:10:21] What do you, so how do you suggest that people keep track? So what should they keep track of their one? Rep max is for everything. Cause you gave me a spreadsheet as well. When I was doing next level of all sorts of parameters. Should everyone be keeping track of all those parameters that you have listed on that?
And I can't remember all of them, but if you wanted to go through some of those things, the list,
Dave Syvertsen: [00:10:41] I think you should know what you lift on every lift or approximate again, like a lot of times we'll say like, how many times do you have come in here? And we say, guys do this at 70 to 80%. And again, it's a range, just so you know, like what stimulus to chase after.
Oh, it's like this Friday is open prep. Workout is the toughest one we were going to do. And it's not necessarily like on the ground breathing it's the movements are heavy and they're complex. So I'm going to say, Hey, here's the RX, but. This should not be more than 85% of this. And if you have no idea what you squat, then that, that means nothing to you.
And that could have you come in and do a workout that is way beyond your means and get your hurt. So I think you should know what you lift. And I also think it's important to know some gymnastics standards, like how many pull-ups can you do in a row toes to bar handstand pushups? 
Sam Rhee: [00:11:30] For what? Like just unbroken. 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:11:32] Yeah. Just so in terms like in a workout that has let's say there's a workout that has 10 handstand pushups at a time, your max set is 11. Like you should probably like, no that you shouldn't do 10 in that first set, because it's going to ruin the rest of the workout. You should do two or three or scale, do five RX, five scaled, and that, I do think our coach has always do a good job of talking at the whiteboard, this is the workout, but this should not be taking you three minutes to do this part of the workout. 
Sam Rhee: [00:12:00] This is where I think I actually have to write a lot more down because. Now that I'm doing some of this training, it helps me a lot to plan my workouts. So I never actually thought how many double unders can I do in 30 seconds or a minute.
But once I wrote it down now, every double under workout, I know. I should be able to do it in X amount of time. I know you do this automatically for yourself. Yeah. 
Terri Wiatrak: [00:12:27] Yeah, 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:12:28] I'm psychotic with the self. So I don't want people to do like that to be like that opinion on it, because I feel like she's been doing this a long time as she is.
She is Anil. You are analytical. And I think like how deep into that? Do you go? If a workout comes up, I'm like, all right, I have a general idea of what I can lift, what I can do capacity wise. Does that change your approach? Pre-workout when you're planning some stuff out. I 
Terri Wiatrak: [00:12:51] mean. Yeah, absolutely.
And then usually it just goes down the tubes then all the workout. Oh my God. He's right. But I do, I try to plan it out. I try to say, okay, this is going to take me like 45 seconds to do so then I'm going to give myself this amount of break in order to get to here and there in order to like, if I wanted to finish a workout.
And if I look at it and I say, okay, I'm not going to be able to finish that workout today because there's a high volume of pushups. And right now my pushups are, I'm struggling with them. I'm going to lighten the load on the barbell because I know it's going to take a lot out of me. So like I do analyze things in terms of that before workout.
And so I'm just coming in and be like, okay I'm here. Let me just do it now. I'm up. I have no idea what's going on. Yeah. But that also comes with time and experience.  But writing it down for me, especially like we had some lifts, I don't even remember what we were doing and I failed like the final lift. But I wrote down that it was an attempt, I circled it and I wrote down fail this, didn't get onto the bar or whatever. Like I, so like I know next time perhaps I could go for that, but I definitely got the previous lift, but how and why did I fail at lift? What do I have to work on in order to get the heavier lift?
And that's just, 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:14:02] that's a good point. Like when you fail a lift, it's not, we say this with a snatch a lot. It's not because you weren't strong enough. It's usually something technique-wise, so if you have these notes that you write down, like how many people that come here and they always get to this, like 90 to 95% weight, and then the movement starts to change the snatch.
The bar path changes. You catch it in front of you. Instead of behind you. You look down at the gown ground every time. If Terry fails a lift, instead of just saying she failed the lift, it might be like, Hey, I was on my toes off the ground. So I didn't really get to drive through my heels. My knuckles started facing forward.
Like when I fail hang cleans, I'm really struggling with this right now with heavy hang cleans. I extend so hard in my, the bar goes away from me. So if I do catch it, I'm in a really crappy position. And I brute strength had to try to stand it up, which is not good for me. So that's something that you can make a mental note of.
If you have that kind of memory or write it down, it's not just, what did you hit? It's what happens around that hole that hit that fail. How did you feel after, right? 
Sam Rhee: [00:15:06] I think the other thing that you hit on though is. Recording yourself. So journaling is also not just writing, but videoing yourself. Now that I've been posting, I had posted some stuff on social media, but I just started recording myself a lot more.
I know you're recording yourself again while I will tell you. That has helped me like, am I 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:15:30] it's the best coach you will ever find 
Sam Rhee: [00:15:32] I will. I know there's a lot of 6am-ers who give me shit for recording myself, which is, yeah, it is whatever. But, I would really encourage people to record themselves because.
It was only then that I started looking at myself and saying, Oh wow. I did not even realize, I'm not, I think I'm kipping, but I'm not really kipping 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:15:50] video doesn't lie. 
Sam Rhee: [00:15:51] Yeah. I think I'm not locking out my legs first before bringing my, stripper budding, but Oh my gosh, look at that.
My legs are completely locked up before I bring my hips up. And it's those things that everyone you shouldn't worry about. You know whether or not it, they just record yourself for everything. Bring a little tripod, bring your camera your phone, and look at yourself. 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:16:15] If, especially if there's something you're frustrated about moving wise, like you feel like you're at a plateau with something, you have to start figuring out why.
And you can't always rely on a coach because like we all deliver messages differently here and then take out the other nine coaches. They do too. And like I've had this, people say this to me. Sometimes he was like, Oh, this coach helped me out with my hands. They push up. They told me to do this.
I'm like, the delivery. And it's maybe I'm too like this, or they're that person, they just connect better. The video. So if you're in this spot man, I can't figure this stuff out, video yourself, because you are going to start rationalizing things differently. You're going to see things different than the coach and the coach sometimes.
Like I struggled with word choice sometimes with. How do I tell someone how to get the muscle up? I try to use all these different things you research. Oh, that person like I'll steal this from that person. It doesn't work sometimes, but like when you show them a video, A lot of times they're like, Oh my gosh, like double unders, right?
Hey, your arms going out, what do you mean my arms are going out? Here's a video. Oh, like I thought I was here. My hands are by my shoulders. Your rope is too short. Now you cannot literally get it under your feet. So like sometimes the video is and Hey, there are some people that just don't like to see themselves on video.
And I think that's part of what it is. I don't want to see themselves on tape,  but. I think the video is probably the best coach you're ever going to get. If you're struggling with a movement, 
Sam Rhee: [00:17:33] there are workouts where my form just starts to grade at the end of it. And you won't see it unless you actually videoed the whole thing and you see yourself.
Yeah, you look great. I look great at one 35, you get me to 150, and then it looks like crap. I think that's important. I think I would, I, if you're a relatively new or you don't have a lot of these numbers that over years, AF I never thought I never actually thought about how long does it take me to row 20 cals?
Yeah. But recently I've had to, and I said, and in some workouts and it's you know what? I need to write down that 20 CALS takes me X. Because then I will know. And when I get better, I'll be like, wow, it doesn't take me X anymore. It takes me X minus 10 or 15 or whatever it is like 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:18:17] yesterday is open prep.
Workout was Amref 20, 20 cal row 20 burpees to a target. And this is where, like we tell people at the board, like this is a conditioning test. This is actually probably a bigger test of your ability to pace, then just to see how high you can breathe and how long you can sustain it. As I I asked a few people, how long does 20 Cal take?
Like people have no idea? No, I didn't have any I know two to the second, how long it will take me in a workout. 
Sam Rhee: [00:18:43] Why don't you guys tell me this stuff? 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:18:45] But yeah. It's, because we're trying to beat you well, but not that well, but I think in if you're going to invest yourself in this stuff, it's not that hard.
It's in a warmup like guys let's how long does 10 cals take you? Cool. How long does 20 take you? It should be the double that, like approximately. So I, and then you start tying, it's not just knowing how many cows it was it. What was the pace on the monitor that got you to that number?
What were the strokes per minute? And this is where I think if like I don't consider myself like some overly intelligent. Person at all. I just pay attention to the details because I want to get better at it. And that's it. If you invest yourself mentally, I think it would enhance  your fitness 
Sam Rhee: [00:19:28] for a lot of us we need to write that down because that's going to help us. And that's really where the journaling comes into play. Yeah, pretty much for every movement. Honestly. I think that's what we should be doing like a spreadsheet. 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:19:39] Yeah. I don't just put every movement up there and just make little mental notes.
They may do wall balls. Now I know how many wall balls it takes me to do, I can do in a minute. And the next time I do Was it the 150 hell it was it the 150, the wall ball one with Karen. Karen? Yep. I'm going to know. All right. This is what I have to pace myself because I used to just go.
What's your strategy. Usually just do as many as you possibly
me your first side, your first time, 200, right? Exactly.
Terri Wiatrak: [00:20:04] I'll never forget that day for your first workout. I was working out next to you. I was like, Oh yeah. I was like, Oh man.
Sam Rhee: [00:20:12] Yeah. Now I'll know how to pace it properly. And what rate I. W I actually have a number I could shoot for it. Yeah. I 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:20:20] think it's awesome. I think it's going to help you. I really do. Yeah. 
Sam Rhee: [00:20:22] Do you keep a diary in general of your life or just for what you do? Nutrition 
Terri Wiatrak: [00:20:29] nutrition. A hundred percent. I have it all.
Yeah. I ebb and flow with it though sometimes. But right now, for sure, since September I've been keeping it, I know. What had been eating and what makes me feel good? And there's times I'll during the week, I'm , I'm really tired today and I know why. And I'm also doing it for hormonal stuff, being a female in her forties.
I'm starting different things. And it's just been very good for me in terms of What I should be eating at certain times. And even like with my workouts, I know there's certain times of the month. I am not going to come in here and I am not going to even attempt a heavy lift. Because I know that it is a bad time for me. It's just my iron levels. My iron levels are low and just energy wise I'm like spent. But I know like at other times, like they are like my optimal times to work out and do well. But that's that is like more of a health journal for me. 
Sam Rhee: [00:21:20] I think Matthew McConaughey, I listened to him one day and he said, he journals a lot of stuff in his life.
And he said, sometimes I need to go back and see when I was at one of the best parts of my life. I was so productive. I was doing so many great things. Want to go back and see. What was I doing around that time to help me get back into that or conversely things weren't going so great.
And what were those things around my life at that point? And you're right. Like you said, fitness is not, what's in the gym, it's the 23 hours that you're out of the gym. And if you're not keeping track of that, you're not keeping track of what you're doing. Even if it's just a checkbox, did I do mobility today?
Did I drink my water today?  The reset challenge, I think helps us so much with that because every day we have to log in and yeah. And if we 
Terri Wiatrak: [00:22:04] really become cognizant of what they're putting in their mouth, 
Sam Rhee: [00:22:06] right. If people just keep to that afterwards and keep their journal and say, okay, I did do my water.
I did do my Mo mobility. I did do my exercise. I did do my sleep. Then that is. Just going to habituate you into doing it automatically almost every day. If you make that checklist, it becomes a habit. Yeah. 
Dave Syvertsen: [00:22:27] It's so important. 
Sam Rhee: [00:22:28] You can get every episode of Botox and burpees, wherever you listen to podcasts, or go to botoxandburpees.com. thanks for listening