C05E97 From 6 Gyms to 120: Growth and Entrepreneurship with Chris Hardenberg: Lessons from the COO of Station Athletics
With six current company gyms, how can Station Athletics @stationathletics reach their goal of 120 gyms in 10 years?
Chris Hardenberg @c_hard_fit, the Head of Operations for Station Athletics shares his journey from being a high school wrestling coach and teacher to becoming a central figure in one of the largest CrossFit gym chains in the country.
We delve into Station Athletics' unique expansion strategy, managing multiple gym locations, and the vital importance of quick lead response for member retention. Chris opens up about the trials and tribulations faced, including navigating debt and the impact of COVID-19, and how they emerged stronger.
He also discusses the systematic approach to programming and the comprehensive support structure for coaches and members. With ambitious future goals, Chris outlines the growth mindset and strategies that could take Station Athletics to new heights. Whether you're a gym owner, manager, or fitness enthusiast, this episode provides valuable insights into running a successful fitness business.
• Chris discusses his introduction to CrossFit and the impact it had on his life
• Insights into the unique model of Station Athletics and its community focus
• The significance of responding quickly to leads for gym retention
• Navigating early challenges in Chris's journey and how they shaped him
• The method of programming used at Station Athletics aimed at inclusivity
• The importance of fostering a gym culture built on support and accountability
• Lessons learned from both successes and failures in business growth
• Future goals for member growth and expansion in the fitness industry
Join us for a riveting discussion on fitness, community building, and entrepreneurial spirit that inspires!
#BotoxAndBurpees @crossfittraining @crossfit @crossfitgames #crossfit #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #clean #fitness #ItAllStartsHere #CrossFitOpen #CrossFit #CrossFitCommunity @CrossFitAffiliates #supportyourlocalbox #crossfitaffiliate #personalizedfitness
00:00 Introduction to the Guest: Chris Hardenberg
00:41 The Unique Growth of Station Athletics
01:54 Chris Hardenberg's Athletic Background
02:52 First Encounter with CrossFit
06:19 Transition from Teaching to Full-Time Coaching
13:01 Joining Station Athletics
16:33 Challenges and Expansions
21:00 Marketing and Lead Generation Strategies
29:45 Location Selection and Competitor Analysis
36:07 Challenges in CrossFit Affiliates
37:02 Programming and Rotation System
39:28 Introducing S.A. Fit
41:56 Selecting and Training Coaches
45:44 Building Community and Member Retention
51:46 Corporate Structure and Growth Plans
56:48 Future Goals and Competitive Edge
01:05:06 Personal Journey and Business Philosophy
01:08:58 Advice for Aspiring Fitness Professional
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C05E97 From 6 Gyms to 120: Growth and Entrepreneurship with Chris Hardenberg: Lessons from the COO of Station Athletics
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00]
Sam Rhee: All right, welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees. I'm here with my very special guest Chris Hardenberg. He is the chief operating officer or head of operations at Station Athletics.
His Instagram handle is C underscore hard underscore fit. He is also a remote coach at zorfitness. com Which does remote coaching and programming and he is the, he does the work for one of the, he does all the heavy lifting for probably one of the most unique or biggest CrossFit gym companies in the world, or at least in the country, Station Athletics.
So welcome to the podcast. Thanks, I appreciate it. So the reason why you guys are so unique is that you have six coming on seven locations, which is I'd never heard of for a CrossFit gym company. You have locations in Denville, Ledgewood, Roseland, which I dropped in and I'll talk about, [00:01:00] Sparta, Summit, Westfield, um, Rutherford, STEAM, which I understand will no longer be part of Station soon, and then you even have Station for Her, which is like specific programming for women as well.
Um, your website is stationathletics. com, your Instagram handle is stationathletics, as well as individual, uh, IG handles for most of your locations. And you also have in, the reason why I got a hold of you guys, or at least I knew about you guys is because of your podcast, Movement Mindset, which, um, has really detailed your efforts.
So in regards to building station athletics and all the lessons you've learned along the way and where you guys have been so, um, thank you again, uh, for, uh, joining me on the podcast and, uh, I'm sorry that you're, uh, the founder, Joe Pesolacqua was not able to join us. He had a last minute thing, but, um, I want to hear a little bit about Chris Hardenberg.
So I kind of dug in a little bit on you and you are a New Jersey product. You grew up in Verona, right? Yep. [00:02:00] And you were a collegiate wrestler and you were 157 pounds.
Chris Hardenberg: Is that what you read? Yeah. As a senior. Yeah. 157. So I was pretty light. How much do you weigh right now? I'm about a, so I'm about 170 now.
Okay. Sam, I'm. I'm the people, I'm the type of person that new fitness people hate. So I was fairly competitive in CrossFit for some time. I, when I competed, I was closer to 180 pounds. And so now as we've grown, I've kind of like, all right, I take our class four or five times a week. So I'm working out less and have lost weight since doing that.
So yeah, so I'm about 170. You're right. You're the person people love to
Sam Rhee: hate. Yes. So, um, you were at Messiah University in Pennsylvania, you were team captain, you had 61 wins. Yep. And then you were coaching wrestling back in Verona, your hometown. And I remember watching you talk about the first time you did CrossFit.
I always love people's, uh, first time start stories. And it's so [00:03:00] classic. It was Fran, that was your first one? Yep. That's so ironic. Yeah. So how did that happen?
Chris Hardenberg: So, it's funny. So, like you said, first of all, you did your research. You're good, man. Um, So I was coaching wrestling at my, uh, where I graduated high school in Verona and it was the off season.
And I knew the guy who ran the weight room. He was kind of like the weight room guy, football coach, when I went to the school and we had a really good relationship when I was in high school. And so I was just there working out because I was a teacher as well. And, frankly, I was a broke teacher, so it's like, alright, well I'm not gonna pay for a gym, I have access to a weight room, I'm just gonna go to the school and work out.
And so he kind of put me aside and was like, hey, have you heard of CrossFit? And I was like, no, I have no idea what you're talking about. This was 2012? Yeah. I wanna say, well I graduated 2012, this is probably around there, maybe 2013, 2014. Got it. So it's like, This was just when, like, Rich Froning and CrossFit's, like, media team started to take off.
So, like, I don't [00:04:00] know how long you, how long have you been doing CrossFit? Yeah,
Sam Rhee: since about 2014
Chris Hardenberg: ish. Okay, so around the same time as me. So, I don't know if you remember, like, old school videos of Rich Froning working out at, like, Tennessee Tech and, like, spooning peanut butter and jelly into his mouth.
Like, that was when he kind of, like,
Sam Rhee: Yeah.
Chris Hardenberg: And so I was like, no, I never heard of it. And he's like, you know, you should try it. I feel like you'd be pretty good at it. And he knew me again from high school coming from a wrestling background. That attitude of like induced suffering is like very much embedded into the sport.
So I was like, all right. So I looked it up. And I just went, uh, got in my search, took me to CrossFit. com, and the main site workout for that the next day was Fran. That's crazy. Yeah, and so naturally, right, I looked at it, 21 59, thrusters at 95 pounds, and, and pull ups, and I was like, Ah, like, this does not look hard.
Right. And so, I was like, I'll do this tomorrow, and I did it and I remember being so sick that I like threw up the peanut butter and jelly sandwich [00:05:00] I ate before working out and I was like, just like a lot of people. It's like, what? Wait a minute. What happened here? Like I was, I wasn't competing, but I was still in good shape, right?
Like I just came out maybe a year or so removed from being a collegiate wrestler. I was still in shape because I was coaching football and coaching wrestling at the time. I was young, you know, I was probably 23 years old and I'm like, how did this kick my butt so badly? And, and I was like, I got to look into this more.
And then what really hooked me was after doing that, realizing that you keep score in the workouts. Cause. Coming, being competitive. I was like, so wait, I can work out, which I already love to do. Feel strong, but then compare scores and try to beat you. Like I'm in, like, that's kind of what got me in.
Sam Rhee: Right.
That's like such a former athlete kind of a hook is that you can still compete at a high level. And you did for a while. It sounds like, and what I like the most about your story, I guess, [00:06:00] like a lot of people's stories is that there are a lot of trials and tribulations in it. Um, I recently talked to Aaron Hinde and he was the CEO of FitAid, uh, and he literally like, when he transitioned from being a chiropractor into his beverage company, he literally was like, Eating macaroni and cheese.
He had like no money. He was broke. Yeah, and it sounds good in retrospect But at the time when you don't know what's going on in your life, like it's scary Yeah, when you're in a young adult and you're like, oh my god, I could literally fail and become homeless Yeah and that's literally where you were and I and I heard that on one of your podcasts and I wanted you to talk about like So you went from being a teacher, coach, getting into the CrossFit space.
Yeah. And, but then there were a lot of problems that kind of happened in terms of trials and tribulations. So what, what, what was that?
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah, that was, uh, it was scary. So to paint the picture, like you said, I was a teacher. I was a phys ed teacher. Um, and it was [00:07:00] fine, right? Like I got a degree in health and physical education because I knew.
I was an active guy. I knew I wanted to do something with like fitness or whatever at the time. But coming out of high school, the only thing I knew of at the time was like, Oh, well, if you want to do that, you Go teach gym, right? So that's what I did. And um, long story short was at the school. I was at I was a volunteer.
I had applied for a paid football position. I didn't get hired. And so I was like, all right, you know, I want to stay connected with the kids. They didn't have a paid wrestling position. So I was like, I'll volunteer with the football team because I was coaching at wrestling at Verona high school. And I was teaching a phys ed at Roselle park high school.
Okay. And so I was paid as a wrestling coach of Verona. So I volunteer with the football team for two years and then my son was born, my first child. And I was like, okay, you know, I frankly was like, I'm not going to, if I'm going to donate my time, it's not going to be to high school kids. It's going to be to my [00:08:00] family.
So. So that's what I did. And so I was like, okay, but I have to make money somehow. Teacher salary doesn't pay all the bills, right? And so I started part time coaching at a CrossFit gym, which is an interesting story. And if I could, if you leave time, I could go that route too. Let's go down there. So I, I had done the open in 2014 at, uh, a local affiliate because I saw a guy used to went out, go to high school with was there.
Um, and the owner at the time, after I did the open workouts, I was like, well, what are you going to do now? And I was like, well, I'll probably just go work. Back to working out at the high school and she goes, well, what if you work out here? And again, you mentioned it like. Broke teacher, fresh out of college.
I was like, I can't afford a CrossFit membership. So she goes, well, what if I just let you work out here for free for a little while? And I was like, well, I can afford free. So I did that, loved it. And then she was like, have you ever thought about coaching? And I was like. Yeah, I would love that. But for people who don't know, the level one is a thousand dollars.
[00:09:00] It's very expensive. Yeah. So I was like, well, I don't have a thousand dollars. And she goes, well, what if I paid for the fee and you paid me back in installments? I was like, I could do that. So that's what happened. That's how I got into coaching CrossFit. Was that Parsippany? No. So that was before Parsippany.
So it was an old gym. It's not around anymore. Uh, exit 153 CrossFit in Fairfield. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I was there. And so when I stopped volunteering with the football team, I was like, I need to make a little bit more income. That's where I transitioned over to the gym in Parsippany. So after doing that for about a year, my principal at the time pulls me into the office and she goes, listen, I'm just going to shoot it to you straight.
In this district, like it doesn't look kindly upon PE teachers that don't coach sports within the district. And I said to her, I was like, listen, I understand the position you're in. I said, but I'm not gonna move to a volunteer position, give up the extra income I'm making, like, I have to support my family.
And I said to her, and I'll never forget, because my wife was a teacher as well, but she was on maternity leave. [00:10:00] I was like, listen, my wife can still go back to her teaching job. I said, I understand the position you're in, and if That if this is going to prevent you from giving me tenure because I was about to get tenure I was like all I ask is you let me know now So my wife can go back to her teaching job while I look for something new and she goes No, you should be good.
You should be good. Okay So my wife tells her job, she's not going back. So now she no longer has a position at the school district. I get a contract. I signed the contract. That's, you know, June. About a month later, a freshman football job comes open. I decline it. I don't want the freshman that, that particular position.
About a week later, my principal calls me and says, we're letting you go. Wait, can they do that and break the contract? So I guess I, I learned after the fact that I probably should have gotten the union involved. My limited knowledge being a non tenured teacher, the way teaching work is when you're non tenured, they can let you go at any point in time for whatever reason.
Once you receive tenure, [00:11:00] it's like very hard to get you fired. And so what happens in most school districts is they leverage that to the hilt. They'll get you to do whatever they want you to do beforehand. Exactly. Cause they know they can. And then after tenure. Then there's a little more negotiation. So I was just like, I'll never forget it sitting in my room.
Like I have a one year old, a mortgage. My wife has no job, right? I have no job. I'm like, what in the world am I going to do? So I remember sitting with my wife and I was like, I got to start applying for teaching jobs. And I go into the gym. I'm coaching at the time, which was in Parsippany. I said, listen, guys, like I can't coach class here anymore.
Cause I have to put. I put all my time and effort into finding a job. And they were like, well, we can't lose you. So what if we put a proposal together for you to come on full time? And I was like, well, put something together and then we'll talk. So they did. And I went to my wife and was like, you know, what do we do?
And she's [00:12:00] extremely supportive. And she knew because I told her when I was at the gym in Fairfield, babe, if I could do this full time and make a living, like I would jump in a heartbeat, like this is what I want to do.
Sam Rhee: Mm
Chris Hardenberg: hmm. But at the time I was like, but you can't make a living doing this unless you're going to own the gym.
Of course. And I, and I was like, I'm not willing to take that risk. So she goes, listen, you've been wanting to do this. Let's just take a chance. And so I was like, that was all I needed. Like I needed her giving me that stamp of approval. Like I got your back was like all the fuel I needed. I was like, all right, let's frigging do this.
That's amazing. Um, and so that's what kind of got me into the space. And then, uh, that's its own long story. But again, but just to shorten it. There was a lot of promises that were made to me in the proposal that were not kept. Um, things went totally haywire, which is unfortunately CrossFit space where you have, you know, uh, fitness people that don't know business.
Right. Um, and so I ended up [00:13:00] being like, I got to get out of here. And at the time I was working out about once a week at Roseland because I connected with Mark Kwan. . Um, and I had reached out to Joe and was like, listen, do you need a coach? And he's like, no, but I need someone to run my gym. Mm. Roseland.
Mm-hmm . I was like, well, I'm your guy. And so that was in 2017 and that's when I came over to Station
Sam Rhee: Athletic. Oh, okay. So Joe Paqua had owned, uh, Roseland at that time. Yeah. So he owned two, two locations at the time. Which two? That one
Chris Hardenberg: Roseland and the, the. The Sparta, the CrossFit Sparta location.
Sam Rhee: Okay. So, at that point, you got, he wanted to expand and grow Station Athletics.
Yeah. And so, when he started talking to you about, let's Get more and more locations. What did you think of that? And what made you buy in and say, yes, we can, we can do this. So I was all in.
Chris Hardenberg: Um, so to start when I came over, I had, I, I didn't have any [00:14:00] options. I was like, I I'll never forget. He's told me he was nervous to hire me cause he had never hired a salesperson before because that's his strength is sales.
And so he had. Done all the sales at the two locations, but he's like, we have so many people coming in, we're growing so fast. I need someone to do this, but I don't know how I'm going to pay you. So you're commissioned only. Whoa. So I had no base salary. I only made. Money if I sold someone on a membership.
Wow. And I was like, all right, well, this is all, this is what I got. And at the time I was also, we had to, things got so bad. We had to sell our townhouse and I had to move in with my pregnant wife and my one year old with my parents. Oh my God. So talk about like, As a, as a husband, a father and a man, like I have totally let my family down.
Like that's, I felt like a complete failure. And so it was like very much back up against the wall. Like I have no choice but to figure this out. And so that's what happened. I sold like a madman. I tried to fulfill. [00:15:00] To the greatest of my ability to get these people results because I'm like, if I can help these people and they can get results and they can see what we have going on here, they're going to stay.
They're going to refer their friends and we could keep this thing going. Um, and so at the time we were working with a company called Jim launch. I don't know if you're familiar with them. Um, and so, cool. We were growing pretty rapidly. And then that's when he's like, Hey, I think I want to open another one.
And so I was like, all right, let's do this. Um, and I fell in love with the idea of like, the way I look at it is if you, if we expand our reach, that's more people we can help. And so if we had. I'm making up a number, but let's say we had 250, 300 members between the two locations. It's like, all right, well, if we had another one, that's another 100, 150 people we can help.
If we had another one, that's another 100 to 150 people we can help. And I, I was a big believer and still am that if I feel that our program is the best out there, then [00:16:00] it's almost like we have an obligation to expand. Um, so when he kind of outlined, and it was very like, It was not a business plan 101.
Like this is how we're going to do it. It was very much like idea. Like this is how we're going to grow. I was like, all right, let's, let's make this happen.
Sam Rhee: So big pictures, but the details were not like quite all filled in. No,
Chris Hardenberg: he's very much a jump into the deep end and, and, and hope that he can swim type of guy.
Sam Rhee: Was it like, so the first thing I would, I saw your website and I saw all the locations, like, so. How do you, like, I know just from my home gym, CrossFit Bison, like how the money runs and I'm like, where did they get the money to keep expanding from location to location? You either have to Be rich and have existing money or you have to borrow it.
So which way did you guys do it to, to make this happen?
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah, I'd say a little bit of both. Okay. Um, so we hit a lot of snags, um, around 2019. So in [00:17:00] 2018, we were growing like crazy. Cashflow was not an issue whatsoever. Yeah. That was probably like peak CrossFit. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then it was also, we were early adopters to online marketing.
And so for people out there who understand. Uh, online marketing numbers. Like we were getting like three to 5 Facebook leads. Whereas now like a Facebook lead is like, like if it's 30 to 40, you're like, Ooh, that's really good spend. So it was like to get 3, 2 Facebook leads. It was like, I told people it's like drinking water through a fire hose.
Like I was seeing people every 20 minutes for four hours. Wow. Yeah. On repeat. And so 2018 was like, holy smokes. Like we got something good going on. So we expanded and expanded and expanded. But again, like I mentioned, like not having a structured plan, we, we outpaced our capacity, um, and then hit a couple of bad decisions, like, uh, all in conjunction in 2019, we had two back to back bad [00:18:00] hire sales hires sold like gangbusters out of the, out of the, out of the shoot.
But then it's like. In those consultations, they're making promises or not really knowing the program and so it was like people were just going out the back door.
Sam Rhee: I see. So retention was not great.
Chris Hardenberg: Really poor. It was the worst it had ever been for our gyms. Um, then on top of it, there was a member at our Roseland location who worked for a supplement company.
And we were Yeah. So she approached Joe, outlined the whole program, and he was like, listen, I can, what is the minimum purchase order? And she, cause he's like, I can only fill so much at a time. She's like, Oh, well you can fill 500 bags at a time. You don't have to fill the whole thing at once. So he's like, great, let's do it.
And then we get a 90, 000. Supplement bill. Oh my god. And, and he's like, what is this? Yeah. And he's like, oh, and then the owner was like, well, that's the minimum purchase order, 5, 000 bags. And he was like, I was told I could fill 500 at a time. Right. He goes, yeah, you can [00:19:00] fill 500 at a time, but you have to pay for it all up front.
Oh. And so he's like, what? Wow. In, and then in conjunction with that, we were also opening a gym in Madison, which was going to be our seventh location and construction got delayed and became more expensive with that. I see. So all of that hit at once. Mm. So he borrowed a lot. Why? A lot. Like he told us at one point the gym was a third of a million dollars in debt.
Oh my
Sam Rhee: god. Yeah,
Chris Hardenberg: that's a lot of leverage. Yes. So we were People were taking pay cuts. We were doing all we could to help the business to survive. And I'll never forget, uh, me, him, uh, our head of marketing, John, and the one girl, Rachel, who helped kind of build out a lot of our backend systems that was like, kind of like the, the center team.
Right. We had a meeting and the, and he goes, guys, I'm making my, our last payment today. We're officially out of debt. We're taking off from here. We're like, all right, let's do [00:20:00] this. And then
Sam Rhee: COVID. And Mars 2020. Yep. Oh my God. And then everyone went down to the crapper at that
Chris Hardenberg: point. So then we had to get shut down.
Fortunately, we had. Uh, it sounds very similar to Bison. We had members who were super committed to us, kept us open, and so then after that, we were, we shrunk down to four locations. Okay. So we went from seven down to four, and that allowed us to build momentum, and build out, and build up some, uh, uh, Steam and what we were doing loud hours cash reserves to grow.
Um, and Joe, basically within the state of the business, he, he was then started a couple other businesses and said, Hey, I need to put my focus in these other businesses. Here's the keys to the car. Don't keep this thing running. So I was like, all right, I gotta, I gotta grow these things. So I helped grow the gyms while he worked in the other businesses.
And then through those two avenues, we were able to build up enough cash to continue to build going forward.
Sam Rhee: So listening to this, there are a couple [00:21:00] things. The first is you guys have more experience in terms of lead generation and growing a gym than any other gym I've ever heard of. Like, like mark, like marketing and lead generation for most gyms is Very disorganized.
Yeah. Like, they don't have a very good marketing system. They don't have a good throughput. They don't know how to approach people and convert them into members. It's just like, hey, come on over. Like, try out our gym and let's see what happens. And, like, it's really, really loose. But you guys seem like Like, trial by fire, you guys are, you've particularly probably perfected exactly what it is that needs to be done to convert a potential into someone who's actually, not just going to come to the gym and run away after a month, but like, you know that they're going to stay.
And what, out of that experience, what is the single most important thing you would say or think about when you got that potential lead?
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah, so I would say, so if you were to ask [00:22:00] me single most important thing when the lead comes in. Yeah. So that would be, um, I would say speed speed. Yeah. Most people don't realize how quickly you need to respond to someone.
Um, there's a lot. And, and to be frank, we've battled this with people who've worked for us as well. But there's a lot within the CrossFit space because the people who run these gyms are gym people. Yeah. Like getting into the gym is not hard for them. Right. So there's a lot of an attitude of like, if this person wants to be here, they're going to walk through the door.
Sam Rhee: Right.
Chris Hardenberg: And it's like, that's not how 90 percent of the population works. And we have to, this person does, people have to realize who run gyms. The gym is actually a grudge purchase. Most of the population actually does not want to go to the gym, right? Like, I hate to break it to people, they don't want to be there.
They're only going there because, for a couple reasons. One They don't like the way they look in the mirror, they don't like the way they feel going through the day, day to day, or their doctor says you need to exercise. And so [00:23:00] recognizing that fact that it's like, okay, I know as the owner of the gym person that I got something good, but you're not going to know it and you're probably not going to know it until two, three months of being with us that you're like, Oh, This is what it's like to feel good.
This is what it's like to eat right. This is what it's like to get enough sleep. This is what it's like, I don't know, to have friends that actually take this seriously. So, being able to realize I have to respond to this person quickly and effectively to get them in the door. Because not only do they generally not want to come in, but for those of you that live in the tri state area, You throw a stone and there's a gym available.
Yeah. And so it's like, there's so many different gyms and businesses vying for their attention that if you're slow in that time, someone else is quicker and they're going to that gym.
Sam Rhee: You know, what's so funny. So, uh, I told you I was going to drop in at Roseland. So I go to your website and there's the first thing always is that big drop form where you fill it out.
There's really no other [00:24:00] way of contact is you have to do that. So I filled out the form. This was seven 30 in the morning and literally not. Eight minutes after that, I got a text from Marquand saying, Hey, I got your message that you're thinking about dropping in at our gym, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I was like, I've never had that happen for any gym in my entire life. And so I go back and forth and I'm like, Hey, and I was honest. I was like, listen, I'm, I'm here to interview you. I'm, I'm, and he's like, no problem. And he took me through, he told me the work, like this was at like, uh, just a random day and I have to say I was, that blew me away and that is very consistent with why you guys are so successful that, that to me that makes total sense.
Um, the other thing that, uh, stood out for me listening to you is that you are not afraid of contracting and expanding. Like that's happened to you guys. Like you guys have gone down, you guys have gone up. Like, if it doesn't work for you, then. You're not throwing [00:25:00] good money or after bad. Yeah, if a location doesn't seem to really like fly and that's happened.
So Like for example with Rutherford steam like yeah, that was part of the station. It's not going to be Going forward like what makes you decide like this isn't gonna work out.
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah, great question So before I get into the steam topic specifically we had like I said had grown to seven locations unfortunately, the Madison location which was sole owned Open it, it hit, uh, it's a year mark right before COVID hit.
Sam Rhee: Okay.
Chris Hardenberg: Um, and so one of our sales reps, right. That was a bad hire for us, ran the presale. It didn't run as well as we wanted it to. And then after we had gotten rid of him, we started to build some momentum. COVID hit. So it was a huge money suck on the business. And it was really hard for us to let it go, but it eventually got to the point where we are in a meeting and it's like, we got to close this location.
Like we, we can't keep funneling [00:26:00] money from the other gyms to keep this gym afloat when we don't even know if this is going to last, so. Let's cut this and focus on what we can grow and then there were two there was one partnership and one Attempt at franchising. So again, right like we had an idea that we wanted to grow and what what that was gonna look like We weren't sure right and so there was one gym in Verona who a guy was opening his location He realized he's like, I don't really know what it's like to run a gym reached out to Joe to partner.
He said, okay and then there were So we did that, but then it's like, all right, maybe we should franchise. Cause we don't want to go fast. It's like, we don't want to take 20 years to get to 10 locations. So we tried franchising and that was originally our Denville location. Now, both of those partnerships fell, fell apart because two reasons, one, we weren't good at being like, this is the way it has to be right.
And you have to run it this way because we know it works. And then when things weren't followed, we [00:27:00] weren't good at being like, especially with the franchises, like being like, listen, you won't follow our systems, we're just going to take the franchise away. Um, to be able to be successful in a franchise model, and we talk about this on one of the episodes on our podcast.
I won't get in too in depth, but you have to be, have ironclad contracts. You have to be a little ruthless to be able to be like, listen, if you're not going to follow our systems, then we're going to take it back. And like, that's what McDonald's does. Right. Because they own the land. And so if you're not doing their systems, they just evict you.
Right. Um, and, and that, and frankly, in the beginning, a lot of in business is like, you're doing business with friends and family. Yeah. And that can get awkward. Right. So, And these are more passion projects because it's CrossFit and they're gyms. Exactly. So, So eventually we said, You know what? We got to cut ties with these guys and it wasn't necessarily about money.
Like, obviously they weren't, the gyms weren't super sick, weren't very successful because if they were successful, then it's like, all right, we'll figure out a way to work this out. Right. But it wasn't about that. It was the fact that [00:28:00] like Joe kind of said, like, you're giving my brand a bad name. Yes. And if we're going to grow, you can't have negative connotation to the brand.
And so we cut ties of that and shrunk all the way back down to, like I said, four was Roseland steam and the two Sparta gyms. We ring it reinvigorated
Denville.
And then we had open Westfield and then with steam in particular, it was one of those things where the gym is, that gym has been around 12 years.
Yeah. It was the only partnership we had left in our network. Oh, um, because we had acquired that gym. So one of the partners from the previous, uh, ownership stayed on. Um, and he's a great guy. I think it was just one of those things where visions. where they didn't align. And so it was very amicable to be like, all right, Hey, you want the gym to look like this, our brand station athletics.
This is the way we do things. And so it's like, okay, cool. And so the other owner was like, all right, well, let me buy you out then. And so that's, that's what's going on. And again, I don't know when this is going to air, but [00:29:00] it'll probably air after this, after that deal is done. And if not, then it'll be on the near horizon.
Um, and so that'll bring us to five, which is again, not what we want, but at the same time, kind of like you said, it's like we've gotten good. And we've gotten good because of mistakes and pain, right? We got good at being like, this is our system. This is why we know it works. This is the numbers to back it up.
And um, we need to be unapologetic about what that is. And that if you, if you're able to follow that, you're going to be successful. And if you aren't, that's fine. But then there's no room on this bus for you.
Sam Rhee: So you have your flagship, which I would say would be Roseland. And then you have Denville. You have your opening Ledgwood.
You have Sparta, Summit, Westfield. What made you choose those locations in particular? Like, you just opened Summit in Westfield recently. It's like, why did you say, okay, we need, like, out of everywhere in New Jersey. Like, why, why those locations?
Chris Hardenberg: So the first location is actually in Sparta.
Sam Rhee: Okay.
Chris Hardenberg: So that was the [00:30:00] first one.
Um, and then he Uh, Roseland open and Roseland was pre me. So I think I think that was mostly because he was looking to find a different demo Uh, the Roseland location is very close to it's in a good spot. It's near Livingston. Yeah, not far from West Orange He's Tanover. So it's a good spot. Um, then the women's gym was open in Sparta that was there because we found we subsect of the population in that town because the original location is very much like Old school CrossFit feel it's in, it was in a warehouse setting.
Um, you know, you walk in and there's like people with shirts off swinging from bars. And so you had people be like, Oh, this isn't for me. And they left. It's also a population that has a lot of stay at home moms. So babysitting was an issue. And so he opened the women's gym as a means to fill a need in that town.
Um, and so that was super, that became super successful for those reasons. And then from there, we look at a couple of different things. So we do a whole demo search. We look at population. We look at average income [00:31:00] in that population, household income, uh, Facebook metrics to be like, okay, how many people are we going to reach with our advertising?
Um, and then what is the distance between that town where we might go and one of our existing locations? Because it's one of those things where we want to be far enough away that our, our advertising doesn't cross pollinate. That you end up self cannibalizing the area, right? And so we look at those metrics and then based off of those metrics we say, okay, cool Here's some of the areas we're looking to go into Um, and so that's what's allowed us to kind of pick some of those towns and then obviously it's based on the space like for example ledgewood by demo numbers is Maybe not the strongest Compared to like a Westfield, right?
But it has really good bordering towns. It's far enough away. It's on route 10 and we walked into the space and it was a perfect square. And it, the, the rent numbers and utility numbers were right. Where it's like, oof, we could like, this is going to be an easy project to build out. It's a prime [00:32:00] location, it has great parking, it's next to a little gym, it's next to a Dunkin Donuts, so you're gonna have traffic, and then when we looked at the demos and said, okay, hey, here's a Ledgwood demo, but the way Route 10 goes is it goes, like, real fast, Ledgwood, uh, Randolph Ledgwood Roxbury, like, But you get like three or four towns in a really tight Avenue.
So that's a lot of the stuff we look at.
Sam Rhee: Wow. So there's a lot of, um, analysis before you decide this is where we need to be. Yeah.
Chris Hardenberg: And, and we also look at like some of the, we also look at our competitors. Yeah. So for us, some of the main competitors, we look at our Orangetheory, F45 and Alpha Fit Club. So those are franchise chains.
Alpha F45 is an international. Uh, Orange Theories, National, but they're big brands, right? And I remember sitting in a meeting and we were like, I wonder, we were like, let's pull up the map of where they're at. And we just said, you know what? If we believe our program's better than those guys, which we do, to my core, I [00:33:00] do.
It's like, well, they've probably already done the market research on where to go. Let's just go where they're at. Let's, uh, like, let's, let's open right across the street and then you're, all you're doing at that point is pairing marketing with marketing and program to program, which is why coffee
Sam Rhee: shops open next to coffee shops because, exactly right.
Yep. So, uh, how about other CrossFit gyms? Do you also look in to where their location is and take that into account when you're not really?
Chris Hardenberg: No, because you kind of touched on it. Most of those CrossFit gyms are like, it's like your mom and pop shop, right? One location, you know, one to two owners. Um, you know, you don't really have a big staff and a lot of them are not professional spaces, right?
You're not used to that from, I don't know a lot about bison, but from outside looking in and talking to you, you're not used to that because it sounds like. Uh, bison has, they have full time staff that they have part time staff. They have been around for a long time, but most gyms are not that
Sam Rhee: right.
Chris Hardenberg: Most gyms is I'm the owner, but I also have another job [00:34:00] and I coach when I can and I have my 60 members and it pays the bills and I'm okay with that.
Right. So it's, we look at it in the sense of like, get an idea of like, okay, how do we adjust our schedule? Like, is it an area that. That has to be in super early because, you know, you get heavy commuting into the city or something like that. So we'll look at that for research. But as far as like where to locate ourselves, that's not something we necessarily look at.
Do you affiliate with CrossFit? Do you guys hold CrossFit affiliations? We do. So, so Roseland does. Okay.
Sam Rhee: Our other gyms do not. Okay. So. And I'm interested why is that? So I know even Station Athletics Roseland does not have CrossFit in their name even though they are a CrossFit affiliate. So what was the decision to say affiliate say Roseland but not, not the others?
Chris Hardenberg: So when Joe got started he was a big CrossFit guy. Yeah. Um, and so. As you were too. Yes. And I still am. Okay. Um, but so we, we So Roseland was affiliated. Um, but then [00:35:00] as we added different locations, especially post 2018, I remember being in sales consultations and you got a lot of, Oh, I heard CrossFit gets you hurt.
I heard it's dangerous. I heard this, I heard that. And It wasn't like in 2014, 2015, where you could slap CrossFit on your building and people just marched into the building, right? And so it was almost like there was a point in time where CrossFit was actually, it was almost a deterrent. Yeah. Um, I think things have come back around.
I don't think it's a deterrent anymore, but I think it's so part of the vernacular that now more people recognize, and this is what I would say in sales consultations. It's like, cause it's not a chain. people would see CrossFit and be like, Oh, you're all the same. Right. And it's like that was the unfortunate thing we recognize is like, okay, you know, mom and pop shop down the street might be doing a terrible job of running a program.
Right. They have CrossFit on their building. They see CrossFit on ours and think it's the same. I see. And so it's like, I've done nothing [00:36:00] wrong to have a negative connotation in this person. Right. But because they had a negative experience at a gym, Three miles up the road. Right. They're not walking into our building.
Sam Rhee: I think you're right. And I think that there are two issues here. The one that you're listing is just such the uneven nature of the quality of the affiliates out there. And we've all, I think, have gone to affiliates where the experience is less than great. And I think CrossFit HQ is having, that's like one of the biggest problems they're dealing with.
Yeah. And they have been. Um, but I also think there is some negative connotation because You know, risk of injury, you know, these guys are crazy, like all that sort of stuff. So, um, you're right. I don't think that a lot of people find, uh, CrossFit on the name to necessarily be helpful for their gym. And I've heard a lot of gyms do that, even though they're maintaining a CrossFit affiliation, they're not putting it up there.
It makes sense that you want to, um, brand consistently as station athletics and, and have people know what that experience is like, depending on which location they're at, that they're, they're [00:37:00] still going to be at a station. What kind of programming do you follow? Like who does it? Like what is it? Yeah. So internally we have two different types of programming
Chris Hardenberg: that we do.
So we have our CrossFit style programming. So that's, uh, our, our one gym in Sparta, uh, the Roseland location, and then it was the steam location. Um, so they run. Uh, you know, tried and true CrossFit programming, snatches, burpees, muscle ups. Who does it for you? So we rotate. So we have about four people who rotate.
We run six week blocks. So you know, one people, one person will program six weeks and then the next person will program six weeks. And so we rotate six week blocks. Um, and we rotate, uh, three to four people to program, uh, and our system around that is essentially we have one person who writes the six week block of programming.
They then send that six week block to me. I look over every set, every rep, everything in the program. You know, I won't make wholesale changes, like if they have a certain progression they want to follow, great, but I'm [00:38:00] looking for more of like, like we have a guideline where in our opinion, the work done in class should not exceed a half hour.
Um, and so. You know, if you have a back squat that takes about 15 minutes and a 12 minute workout, that's about 27 minutes worth of work, you're good. Um, and so we want about, you know, I would say 27 to 32 minutes worth of work in the class. I want to make sure we're balancing things like, you know, two leg squatting, single leg, knee flexion, upper body pulling, like making sure like those are all puzzle pieces correctly.
And so I'll send feedback to that person. We then have a back and forth on what stays, what goes, what changes. Then that program gets sent out to. The general managers who of the gyms that will be doing that programming to look at and we schedule a meeting in that meeting, the programmer goes over the skeleton, what to expect within those six weeks.
And then if there's any workouts in the six week program that could pose a logistical problem, like, Hey, I'm trying something creative here, like you're gonna have to organize the class in this way, do this, this, this and this. We go over [00:39:00] that in that meeting and then from there we record that meeting. I send it out to our entire part time staff so that they can watch it and see what's going on within the six weeks.
Oh, I see. And then we also have our media team film a video with the programmer to go over the skeleton and we blast that out to the members so they know what to expect within the six
Sam Rhee: weeks. Wow, that's really systematic and One, super helpful for the coaches and super helpful for the members. Actually, wow, that's really great.
Um, and then what's the other leg of the? Yeah.
Chris Hardenberg: So the other, the other leg is what we would call what we're going to be calling S. A. Fit. So essentially S. A. What S. A. Fit is, um, it's like an amalgamation of a lot of different things. Um, but think of it as a lot of CrossFit, but we take out certain movements like barbell snatches, muscle ups, handstand walking.
We basically take. a lot of those movements out. And so you have, I would say a CrossFit base to the style of programming, but we'll incorporate some bodybuilding in there. We'll incorporate some, um, you know, maybe some aerobic style stuff or hit style stuff. And, [00:40:00] um, but all the vernacular is CrossFit esque.
Um, and the reason why we do that is because we found demos at some of our gyms change significantly. Yeah. The starting fitness level of people coming into the gym.
Sam Rhee: Yeah.
Chris Hardenberg: Right. You like, you get people like, all right, I'm 40 years old. Uh, I haven't moved since I stopped playing high school sports at 18.
It's like, Ooh,
Sam Rhee: so we're really starting at square one. So we're not going to make you squat snatch.
Chris Hardenberg: Exactly. Or do handstand pushups. Right. And then we, we found a lot of people, I hate to say it, but there's a lot of people in the population that really don't care what they snatch. And so it's like, all right.
You have this with the, with the members. Then on top of it, it's hard to find good instructors. Yeah. Like we have a bar at our company of coach, like you got to be this good. And finding someone who's this good, who can coach the snatch, the clean and jerk is way harder. Yeah. Then like we've had [00:41:00] good, we have good coaches at some of our gyms that have very little to no experience, very little experience, I should say, coaching the Olympic lifts.
Yeah. And they're amazing coaches. Yeah. They know they can coach a back squat, they can coach a bench press, they can coach toes bar. They can do all that.
Sam Rhee: Yeah.
Chris Hardenberg: They're just not super familiar with snatching and clean and jerking. Yeah. And so it's like. But if that was a CrossFit gym, they would never be working for us because those are also the movements that if someone were to get hurt, it's going to be most likely in those movements.
Those are complicated. The complexity. Yeah. Um, and so we were like, all right, you know what? I think this is our model because in our opinion, CrossFit and the way it's formatted Is the best way to get people results in a short length of time, uh, build muscle, but let, maybe let's cut out some of the things that are the hardest to coach and that people don't really care about.
And then we label that as a fit.
Sam Rhee: Got it?
Chris Hardenberg: Uh,
Sam Rhee: what, uh, what now? Obviously the product is what keeps people. So you guys obviously have a tremendous amount of experience and [00:42:00] expertise with You know, advertising, marketing, lead generation, bringing people in, but obviously people stay, the retention rate is based on your product and the product is the coaching and the programming.
And like you said, CrossFit or CrossFit style programming works. We all know that that's why we're all in this space. Um, how do you establish that? Like, so how do you choose your coaches? How do you choose the culture or establish a culture? Cause a lot of it's also about community. And I saw that at Roseland when I was there, like.
You know, the people knew each other and they, you know, there was a lot of banter back and forth and they really had a, you know, good, uh, rapport and the coach shocker was great. Like he was really, uh, like he spent time making sure everyone's fitness level was appropriated. Someone had, someone had a little bit of a tweak shoulder and he worked with them during, uh, before we started the class.
Uh, WOD, like after the warmup to make sure that, you know, he was [00:43:00] going to be able to do the movement. Okay. So, um, how do you ensure that your coaches are actually coaching right? How do you pick them? You know, it's not, it's not, like you said, it's not that easy to find good coaches. And then how do you like build community and, and make that culture for each gym?
Yeah.
Chris Hardenberg: So a lot of it is done in our interview process. And that was something again, like as we go through this, if anyone's listening, I want people to understand like, Everything we've learned in Nevelt was unfortunately learned the hard way.
Sam Rhee: Well, we all learned, those are the best
Chris Hardenberg: lessons, Isha. And so like we, you know, every, everyone who's ever run a business has heard, Oh, you hire slow fire fast.
Right. And that's way easy to say and way hard to do in practice, but through a bunch of bad hires, we've learned, know that there's truth to that. So for someone who wants to be a coach for us, first thing they do is go through a phone interview with us and basically all we're. through that phone interview is background.
Um, what is your experience? Where do you come from? What are your expectations? What do you see your [00:44:00] schedule look like? And then it's like, okay, if there's alignment, great. Come in and take a class. And we always want people to come in and take a class because that helps gauge culture fit. Like if I'm going to be a coach and I'm a wallflower, that's probably not a great start, right?
Or you might get someone who come in, comes in for their first class and is already telling you what to do. And it's like, Hey buddy, why don't you like come in and like be a member, be integrated into the community versus someone who comes in and it's like, I'm sure you've seen it. It's like, man, you sure that got, you sure that's only their first day?
Like they seem to like know everyone already and it's like, that's a really good sign. So they'll come in and take class. Then after that if it's again, this is all assuming it's an outside hire after they take class if it's like, all right This looks like they move. Well, that's also a big thing Like I can't have someone coaching an air squad who can't physically do it.
And so it's like, all right, they move Well, they have good rapport. They look like there'll be a culture fit coming in coach a class. So we give them no guidelines Here's the workout, build a warm up, send me a, like a, a, a lesson plan of what your plan is for the [00:45:00] day. If everything looks good, run the class.
And then we watch them coach the class. And then if that goes well, from there, we have an internship program. And so that's done to teach them, you know, how do you sign people into class? What are our expectations when coming to class? So like we have certain markers like. Every person in the class should hear their name at least three times.
The coach should be talking for at least 75 percent of the class. The coach should be moving. There should be no more than, you know, three, four minutes at a time. They're standing in the same spot, right? Stuff like that. And so it's like, that's where we teach them. And then based off experience that usually lasts anywhere from two to six weeks.
And so we go through that full process before anyone coaches a class
Sam Rhee: with us. That's a pretty thorough vetting. Yeah. Wow. And then, uh, so you have different levels. So that's your first level. Yeah. The person that actually is in most contact with the members, the athletes, and then what is it that you guys do for each gym in terms of community building?
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah. So our general manager, so the cool part, I think, and of course I'm biased, but the cool part for us that I think [00:46:00] about our gyms is universally we have certain systems and processes that we have, whether it's around how to get, how to, uh, a referral pipeline or how do we run this program? Bye. On top of that, each gym kind of has its own individual personality.
And so my goal, and I say this to our general managers, is like, I want you to feel like you are the gym owner. Now you're not going to make 100 percent of the decisions yourself, right? But I want you to get to the point where you feel confident making 90 percent of the decisions yourself. And so what happens is the community within that gym starts to reflect the general manager's personality a little bit.
Um, and so what we do to help build that community, obviously you have the front facing of, of the GMs, I'm sorry, of the coaches. But for someone who comes into our gym brand new, they start in what we call our six week program, our Fit Lean project. Everyone who walks through the door for their first six weeks gets unlimited classes.
They get an individualized meal plan, and the GM is their accountability coach. Just every new member? Every new member.
Sam Rhee: Really? Yeah. Wow, so it's almost like an induction period where you, [00:47:00] because you want them really closely monitored for all of that stuff. Correct. That's a great idea. Because
Chris Hardenberg: a lot of people will fall off in those first couple weeks.
Yeah. Um, and so, So the GM is there saying, Hey, you had, and then every week they step on our in body scale to track progress. And so it's like, cool. You had a great way. And this is what I saw. Make sure you're doing this. Or not a great way in this week. What happened? Oh, I went out with friends on the weekend.
So it helps keep them on track. Right. And then if they're not showing up. We have that process so the GM could be like, Hey, you haven't been here. What's going on? And so it helps make sure that people are coming into the gym and that's huge from a community standpoint, because most people are not used to going in gym and getting that support, right?
It's Hey, you signed the contract. Great. That's all I care about. That's right. Um, and so that helps. And then after they progress into the membership, we have different things along the way to help. ingratiate them into the community. So like, for example, once you convert into a member, you get a welcome box from us, which has a branded shaker bottle, a t shirt, free t shirt, a sticker, sunglasses, like all this stuff with our logo all over it.
[00:48:00] Nice. So you get that. Then in addition to that, you progress into membership. Every, everyone who progresses out of our challenge gets what we call our level two meal plan. So you get nutrition guidance is It's like all inclusive. It's part of our membership. That's just automatic. So it's always there.
Nutrition is always part of it. Yes. Because it should be, right? Yes. Yeah. And so that's the way we look at it is like, let's not pretend that it should be separate. Now, I'd be lying to you if every member took advantage of it, and that's fine. But it's always there. Um, and then from there we do things where, uh, community events.
So we have a community event calendar for the entire year built out the year before that we make tweaks to. Um. You know, our coaches are and our staff is very in tune to making sure that people are showing up to the gym. So we have a system we call it our SOS list, you know, save our ship, right? So, you know, we get a report where someone hasn't been to the gym for two weeks and they pop up on the report and our general managers are reaching out to them to get back into the gym.
So it's a lot of like. [00:49:00] And I think a lot of that, plus the fact that RGM feels supported, um, allows them to build that awesome community. Because what a lot of people don't talk about is you have a lot of gym owners who frankly are tired, burnt out, and broke. And it's really hard to build a community when you're just worried about, am I going to pay the rent this month?
Right. And so my thing was like, if we could rewind back to what I said. A while back where it was like, I wanted to coach at that one gym, but I was like, you can't do this full time without owning the gym was like, I want to create an atmosphere where you have people who love fitness, they love CrossFit.
They're not sure how they could do it to make a living. And when I started, it was either you had a full-time job and you coach classes just 'cause you loved it, right? You did it full-time, but you were dirt cheap, dirt broke, right? Or you own the gym and you're probably dirt broke anyways, right? And so I want to create this where it's like, no, you can earn a real living doing this.
You can have access to [00:50:00] benefits doing this. You can be able to say, Hey, I take a paycheck home, I can support a family. And having that stability also allows our GMs to porn our members.
Sam Rhee: So you're, uh, first of all, who does your nutrition work for you? Like, do you have anyone dedicated or is it a program that you buy in?
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah, so we have tiers. So, phase one is we have a couple different, uh, meal plan templates. So based around your, your Uh, body fat, your size, your goals. It's like, cool. You fit into this into this lock. Yep. And it's very, it's restrictive, but it's restrictive because our goal is to get people results quick within those six weeks.
Because if I can get you results, basically I'm showing you that we can get you results, right? And so if you don't get results quick, like the first meal plan is not something we'd recommend people being on for three years, but it's like. Oh, I lost 10 pounds. Well, now I've convinced you that I know what I'm talking about.
Sam Rhee: So it's like a reset chat.
Chris Hardenberg: Exactly. So now it's like, okay, cool. I've earned your trust. Now I can use the next year and a half to educate you on what's best to eat for your body. So that's phase one. Then phase [00:51:00] two, we start to look at your markers on our in body scale. And so it's more in tune to like, what is your lean muscle mass look like?
And we have a formula we'll enter into a sheet to help spit that out. Phase three is then macros. And then we're this close. We're not there yet, but we're this close to developing what we're calling phase four, which is one on one macro coaching. So if you're familiar with like RP strength or M2, like they do that.
And it was our opinion. It's like, well, why don't we have that? Yeah. And so we have a couple of coaches that went through like a precision nutrition course, some other courses, and then we're just building out the system now so that it's like, okay, whether you're someone brand new who hasn't eaten broccoli in 10 years, or someone who's like, no, I'm trying to shred and like.
Compete at like regionals, like we can have someone to coach you
Sam Rhee: through that. So the general managers are full time employee and they manage one gym or multiple gyms. So
Chris Hardenberg: they manage one location.
Sam Rhee: That's it. Wow. So like you said, they're managing all the daily issues that [00:52:00] like a gym owner would probably have to handle is that's.
That's what they do. And then that, after that layer of administration, it goes to you who manages all the general managers or there's another layer. So it's, it was me, um, and that was exhausting.
Chris Hardenberg: And so we're building out a true corporate structure now. So, uh, we have one woman, her name's Shannon Flannery, who ran our women's gym and she is unbelievable.
She took over our women's gym post COVID. She was previously a teacher, left, left education. And I remember having a conversation with her, like she had, like, the gym was struggling. And I was like, I can only pay you this. And then she was coaching 18 hours a week. Wow. Doing sale. Like she was just like grinding.
Wow. That's like super person. Super person. Built the gym, built the membership up. Then we had to move. So that was the other thing post COVID was the landlord at the time, we had a manageable rent and he's like, I [00:53:00] want this much for the space. And it was like almost double. Of what our rent was. Oh my God.
And I was like, we can't afford that. So we had to move the gym and we moved the gym. And not only did we move, but we had to cut the space down. It was probably like 33 percent of the previous gym size. Oh my gosh. So there was a lot, it was very turbulent time. And Shannon's so good at her job that. She continued to get people results.
She continued to build the community and the gym grew. The membership grew despite the smaller space. So she then became our first district manager. And then, um, so she manages what we call our Sussex Morris District. So any gym in Sussex and Morris County is her purview. How many gyms are there? Is that right?
So right now that's the two in Sparta and one in Denville and it will be Ledgewood. So she'll have four. Yep.
Sam Rhee: Okay.
Chris Hardenberg: And then in December, Okay. Okay. Okay. You know, Joe and I met and he was kind of like, we're drawing stuff on a whiteboard. We, we met for like four hours, I'm like, all right, where are we going?
And we looked at the board and he [00:54:00] circled me and we're like. You are, you are the bottleneck. I was the bottleneck for the growth of the business. Oh, for growth? Yeah. Because I only had so much time
Sam Rhee: and only all those decisions had to go through you in terms of getting correct things done.
Chris Hardenberg: And so he was like, we need to hire a second district manager.
And he, I was like, can we afford to do that? And he's like. We'll figure it out. So I was like, okay. So we started to search for a district manager and I ended up connecting with an old friend. His name's that you,
Sam Rhee: you may or may not know Dave, you know, Dave, I saw that announcement. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, right down the street, it was started at Hawthorne.
Yeah. So I
Chris Hardenberg: knew I've known Dave and Nast for a while. Yeah. And so I reached out to them. I'm like, do you know anyone who might want this job? And Dave's texting me. He's like, you know what? I might want that job. And, uh, because he, him and Nast had sold their gym. Yeah. And he. They're great people, Christian people, I've met through different churches and Christian groups [00:55:00] and he was taking care of his father and was like, I need to find something new.
So we talked and I, I had one interview with him and I was like, listen, man, I gotta take you through the process just because I have to, like, to feel good about it. But I'm like. I'm going to hire you, right? And he's been dynamite. Yeah. Um, and so to have the two of them, he's in charge of what we're calling now our Essex union district.
Okay. So I need gyms in Essex and union County right now. He was also in charge of steam, but with steam coming away, he unfortunately only has two gyms right now, but as soon as a summit opens, we'll have three. Um, and so that is now the new corporate structure. And that was, is what makes me super excited is like, I can now say to someone.
Who I'm looking to hire for a general manager position. Hey, you're really good at your job and you're leaving your mom and pop gym because you want to grow. Well, you can come to our gym and you can earn it, earn a salary, have commission and bonuses and play, do personal [00:56:00] training, make a good living. If you love that gym, want to stay there.
Great. You could stay there for forever, but if you want to continue to grow, there's a position above that, which is a district manager, and now you can manage anywhere from four to eight. Jim's plus, and that could be your next thing. And then our goal is as we grow from there, we would develop regions, right?
So like maybe a region is the state of New Jersey and you might have, you know, four or five, six district managers under you. So that's kind of the corporate structure we're building.
Sam Rhee: I can see where your plans are in the future here. They're, they're big, like very big. Yeah. And I guess I can only say I would believe it because of all of the hard knocks you guys went through.
Like, like you said, this. This system has only come out because it's been tried and true for multiple years in multiple locations and multiple systems. So, and like you guys have sort of closed off all the loopholes, leaks, problems, potential issues that might come up, uh, how many gyms? In [00:57:00] your wildest dreams, would you see yourself in, in five years?
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah, so it's funny you should say that. So we have a corporate goal. Uh, we want to have 2, 000 members by 2026 and 20, 000 members by 2034. Wait, so how many do you have right now? So, so we ended last year at about 690 members. Okay. So by the end of 2026, we want 2, 000, which in our estimation. Is about 14 to 16 gyms.
And then we want 20, 000 by the end of 2034, which by our math is around 115 to 120.
Sam Rhee: How do you, I mean, you are very confident that you can compete against all of these other, not CrossFit gyms, but like you said, these other types of fitness places like Alpha Fit Club, F45, Orange Theory, what makes you guys better than any of those?
People.
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah. So in our opinion, what makes us better is a couple of things. One is I [00:58:00] think our structure is better in the sense that our general managers actually have support with those other companies, their franchises. And so there's no real corporate support. The way a franchise works is you're. Given the playbook, you know, you pay a certain amount of money into the pot so you can get the playbook and then every month they take a certain percentage.
So you can use their name on their building. Yeah. But a lot of the ins and outs is like, okay, this is how we, we market. Right. And you're like, okay, so that's how we market. But who's to say that marketing works well for your area. Whereas for us, it's very much like these ads don't work here, but they work over here.
So we'll run them over here and we'll figure out what works over here. Um, and so what happens is you don't get the corporate support and a lot of those Locations end up floundering and that was reinforced because we've had people from those companies apply for jobs with us and that's what they've said is like I, you know, I've had to figure this all out on my own.
Um, the other thing I think that makes us better is because of that corporate support, we put [00:59:00] so much into the program itself. Whereas when you're selling franchises from a corporate perspective, my goal is to sell franchises. My goal is not to Get more members or improve their
Sam Rhee: offering. It's just the number of franchises you have.
Chris Hardenberg: Exactly. And then it's on the franchisee to manage that. Right. Whereas corporately, because we're all so owned, our goal is to make the program so good that people don't wanna leave.
Sam Rhee: The issue is, and I see this is, uh, one, you are, it's a, it's a push pull situation. One is you are putting a lot of authority.
Like you're decentralizing it. So like, as you get bigger, your district managers take on more responsibilities, the general managers, the, you know, like to make sure that the product in each gym, because that's how it works, the product has to be successful. So you're, you're pushing a lot of authority down for a lot of these people.
But on the other hand, you also have a lot of. responsibility on you because now you're also overseeing more and [01:00:00] more of these people to make sure that their authority is being used appropriately and they're, they're being guided appropriately for you. So it's like, at some point, it's like, how many more Chris Hardenbergs can you get?
How many more Dave Whitsons can you get? How many more Chakas can you get? Like, it really depends on finding that and, and continuing to grow that.
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah. And a lot of it is. You know, I'm trying to impress upon, uh, some of our district managers now, it's like, okay, you're now, not Dave necessarily, but more Shannon, just because Dave, Dave was not a general manager with us, he came from somewhere else, but Shannon was a general manager, and so she ascended, and it's like, okay, you need to now reframe your sales, like, you're not selling memberships anymore, you're selling employees, and so you're selling, why should this person work for us, right?
And then, that, that's a lot of that conversation is like, okay, I, she now has to vet out, you know, Is this person a good fit for us? And are they going to get in line with what we want to do and resonate [01:01:00] with the vision we have going forward? Um, and that was something we had, uh, uh, our first annual, like, conference this year to kind of like talk about a lot of that stuff.
And one of the things we said was like, here's the goals. 2, 000 members by 2026, by the end of 2026, 20, 000 by the end of 2034. We're going. And so. If you're in, get on. If you're not, that's fine, but you got to get off then because we're going no matter what. Um, and then I think the other thing that separates us is a lot of those programs are very watered down in the sense it's like Orange Theory as an example.
Very cardio heavy. Yes. Not a lot of weights. Yeah. And so what we see a lot is people get great results in the first two months, then they plateau because they're not building any muscle. Right. And so we say, okay, hey. We operate off of sound strength training principles. That's why we lift weights. And we lift weights that are moderately heavy or heavy for you.
And we vary [01:02:00] what those things are to help you build muscle. Because if you build muscle, you burn more calories at rest. And if you do that, you're able to have a leaner disposition as well as just a healthier lifestyle. Um, Then you also have the CrossFit effect of like different progressions to build to Right.
Which keeps people hooked. Right. From a fitness perspective.
Sam Rhee: Right.
Chris Hardenberg: And so we think that aspect of our program blows the other programs out of the way. And then in addition to that, we also, like I said, we include nutrition where a lot of these gyms just don't do it. Yeah. I think that's a kicker. Yeah.
Sam Rhee: That's, that's the key.
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah. And then in, and then also the, um. The accountability, right? And so we know like we had a gentleman who used to work for us who previously worked at an orange theory. And they said that the average membership length was people. Someone would stay with that gym for three months.
Like that was the average length. Someone stayed, or is it our locations? It's anywhere from 1. 3 to 1. 5 years. Yeah. And so it's like. So having that ability to continue to affect change allows people to stay for longer. And why that's important is because if someone stays longer, they get better results.
And if they get better [01:03:00] results, they tell everyone they know versus these other companies, which are basically banking on investor dollars to feed into the marketing machine to replace the conveyor belt of people going out the back door.
Sam Rhee: You must have some amazing backend systems to deal with all this because there's a lot of metrics you guys are keeping track of.
I do remember when I did my sign in. Uh, at Roseland, I mean, it was all on iPad, it was pretty quick, I mean, as long as you don't read the 50 pages of disclaimer, which everyone has, uh, and I quickly got three emails, and, you know, with my account stuff, all this other stuff, like, you know, it was really, really, really fast, and, and, uh, I was able to log in, look at, like, membership options, this, that, every other thing.
I thought, um, it was about as good of a backend system as I ever saw. And is this the one that you guys have always like standardized on and always? Yeah. So we've used this system for
Chris Hardenberg: a long time. Um, we're actually in the process of gradually transitioning out of this system. Really? [01:04:00] Yeah. A lot of it is because we are now at a point where we're outgrowing that system from a location standpoint.
Oh, I see. So like a great example is the, the system we're working on migrating to a mind body. They have the ability to in our branded app. have a drop down menu with the location. I see. So you can do, you can click the drop down, select your location, find out what the schedule is. And then if you're, I'm a Roseland member, but I happen to be, you know, in, I don't know, Ledgewood or Roxbury for a meeting.
Right. I know the schedule can pop into the Ledgewood location. I see.
Sam Rhee: Yeah. I've done that for yoga studios and the mind body. Yeah. Pretty popular with those guys.
Chris Hardenberg: Yeah. So it's, Pike has been great. The backend system we're using now, it's just one of those things where it's like, okay. They can't keep up with us.
And like a lot of tech companies, their support got cut post COVID. So it's a lot of AI and bot communication, which can be okay. But when it's like, no, no, I need to get someone physically on the phone to work through this issue. They're not great with that. Whereas my body with our program, it's [01:05:00] like, no, we have it.
Yeah. We have an account person. So if I have an issue, I can email Steve or call Steve and he can help me fix the issue.
Sam Rhee: Did you envision yourself when you first started right out of college that you would be in the position that you are? Because you're not doing coaching. You're not teaching. You're not doing, like You're in gym stuff.
You're like a high level admin, business, growth, mark, like this is a completely different skill set that you ended up growing over the past 10 years. And in order to get to where you are, like when you look at yourself now, like, is this great? Like you're like blown away, excited. This is like, did you ever think this is where you would end up being?
No
Chris Hardenberg: shot.
Sam Rhee: No,
Chris Hardenberg: I know. Cause when I graduated, I was like, my big thing was like, all right, I'm going to coach. I'm sorry, teach gym and I'm, I want to coach wrestling cause that's what I did. I was a wrestler and I was like, I want to coach high school wrestling and be a head high school wrestling coach. And, and as things morphed and progressed, I realized, okay, [01:06:00] yeah, like I actually really liked this fitness thing and I always liked fitness.
Or, or lifting weights, like, I, in high school I played football, I wrestled, and I, I was one of those people who, like, really enjoyed the offseason, because it was like, I just get to lift weights and feel strong, right? I thought I looked strong, but I wasn't, because I was so skinny, but like, um, it, I enjoyed it, and so it was like, okay, it started to progress that way.
And as it progressed that way, I thought it would just be coaching people, right? Like, all right, I'm going to coach class. And then, um, you mentioned I do a little bit of remote coaching now. And when I was at Parsippany, I had at one time, I want to say I had 10 to 20 clients. I did like individual program design for, and I thought that was what I was going to do.
And I didn't really have an interest in the business side. Um, But things gradually changed. The more I moved up in station athletics, I was still with sales. I still had a role in some of the coaching and programming stuff, but it became less and less prominent. And I think where things really took off for me from a [01:07:00] business perspective was actually post 2021.
So in 2021, I competed on a team and in a quarterfinals. Okay. And I remember doing it and it was with, uh, three other people. They're still, two of them are still at our gyms. One guy actually moved down to Florida. And I remember getting done and I, like, gave it everything I had. And I looked at the quarterfinal leaderboard and I was like, We finished 151st?
And I literally, like, it might sound crazy, but I took a step back and I was like, you know, I'm not that great at this. And so I was like, I need to take a step back from this. I was already starting to feel like I had two kids at this time. Like my time was being pulled in a lot of different directions. I was like.
It was one of those like cognitive dissonance where it's like, should I still be putting in two and a half hours, three hours of training every single day? And so I went through this period of like, almost like morning to be like, I'm not that, I'm not that dude. But then it's like, where do I [01:08:00] put my competitive outlet?
And I realized through like some podcasts I listened to some books I read starting to track the metrics a little bit more than I was like, Oh, wait a second. Business is a sport I could play for the rest of my life. So you treat business like a sport. A hundred percent. So now it's like, I look for. PRs in memberships.
I look for PRs in revenue growth. Right. I look, that's where it's like, it juices me up, Sam. When I'm like, Oh man, we PR this month and writing you. Right. Right. So that became my sport of choice where it's like, I think about it all the time. So that's what really got me into the business side is when I really started to feel that like business was a sport or a game that it's like.
Oh, okay. Like this is my new competitive Avenue.
Sam Rhee: I love that. That to be able to switch from that to that is something I think a lot of people could take away and actually. Use as a guide for their success. Yeah, for sure. Wow. So for anyone else [01:09:00] that's in the space that is listening to you and saying, how do I become Chris Hardenberg someday?
Like, what would your advice be for them? Um,
Chris Hardenberg: you know, my advice would be to try, you know, I give this advice to, there's a, there's a woman who works for us right now. She's our general manager at Denville. She's 23 years old. And. She wandered into Roseland, her and her boyfriend drive from Blairstown to Roseland to work out.
Oh my god. Yeah. And I remember when she started working for us and I go, Felicia, your job right now is to learn as much as humanly possible. And so my advice would be that. Is to don't have an ego. Seriously, approach every situation like you don't know anything and try to learn as much as humanly possible.
Take a posture of a student, because the more you do that, the more you learn. And if you can be a direct implementer of that [01:10:00] and be like, cool, I've learned this thing. I'm going to do it now. You start to build a skill set and a toolbox that will advance going forward. And that's kind of what happened for me with Joe is like.
He just kept throwing stuff at me. And I was like, all right, I'm going to learn how to do this. And then I would implement it. And then he just knew that, like. If he threw something at me, I was just, I was going to figure it out. And as someone who is a business owner in management, that person, and this is again, when I'm trying to press upon new people with us, like you don't understand how valuable that person is that I don't have to micromanage you that I can just say, Hey, we need to get this done.
And then I get to the next thing and you say, okay, and you get it done. That's, that's the person that. is going to continue to progress forward.
Sam Rhee: Don't be afraid of all those hard knocks because they will really teach you a lot. Yeah. If you can get up and keep going that, uh, you can end up where you are.
It looks like. Yeah. Thank you so much, Chris. I learned a lot. I'm really inspired by this and I really, uh, wish you guys all the success. I have a feeling that your goals might [01:11:00] actually be lower than where you guys might end up being just listening to. I sure hope so. How you guys operate. Thank you so much.
Thanks. I appreciate it.
